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europeforvisitors
Joined: May 23, 2002
# Posts: 23
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Posted: 2003-Aug-05 16:49
>>Just a small point to add - not only does Google not tell us which pages are bringing in the revenue, they don't even tell us which sites.<<
Google may be trying to discourage SEOs and entrepreneurs who own affiliate sites from creating massive numbers of "content sites" that are built around targeted AdSense keywords.
>>Other international companies allow you to choose your currency (eg CJ pays in sterling - albeit at a higher minimum). Maybe Google should think about doing it too.<<
They probably will, once they've built up the network and shaken the early bugs out. Right now they're probably busy enough just dealing with issues like enrollment standards, fraud detection, and providing enough server capacity to track and display statistics for untold thousands of AdSense accounts.
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seo_guru
Joined: Apr 10, 2005
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 2005-Apr-10 11:22
This is an old thread, but in coming across it today, I felt compelled to reply.
I don't know why people aren't understanding what Curt is saying. ANY smart businessman will want to know what percentage they are getting.
Dollar amounts are all relative to total dollars generated by your page. This is NOT new people. When professional sports players negociate contracts (or even the players associations themselves) their negociations always include percentages. What if every ball player made $200,000 per year? That is a lot of money isn't it? In fact it is more than most CEOs make. But they don't get $200k, do they? Why? Because they know that they bring VALUE to the organization that far exceeds that number. If you knew that your site generated $50,000 per year for Google yet they give you $2,000 per year, why would you be OK with that? Yes, they created the ad network but you had to build the site and drive traffic. The site IS the marketing channel; without the websites Google would make NOTHING.
I just don't get why people are so content to just take what they are handed to them, even if they are being bent over in the process. It is poor business not to know the specifics of your revenue streams. If your earnings decrease you need to know why. And when you forecast earnings, you need to base it on a control variable. If you don't know the percentage you are making, then you also don't know if they change it.
I'm not saying I want 50% or 60%. I'm saying that if you are giving me 5%, fine, just tell me I'm getting the 5% so I can take action if it moves up or down. Some people are saying that if you are making money, then who cares? As a businessman, I CARE. If I was making $1,000 per month from 40,000 page views and I increase my traffic (at my expense) to 100,000 yet still making $1,000 per month, I want to know why. Has the bid price decreased? Did I just spend all of that money expanding my site only to give it to Google since I am generating the same revenue anyway?
That being said, there are certainly reasons why they don't divulge such information. I personally think that it may be a dynamic percentage based on CTR and impressions. This is why they "sweaten the deal" for their premium partners. I know of a site owner that says he is getting approximately 65% from Google.
Now, some of you make a point that even if you make $1 per month, it is $1 more than you made with nothing on the page. Well, yes and no. A fundemental economic concept applies in this case, Opportunity Cost; the amount of money that it costs you for lost opportunity of generating revenue through another method. Some of you say that other methods can co-exist but at what cost to the end user? Do you turn away people if you have Google, CJ, FastClick, PointRoll, etc. all on the same page?
I agree FULLY that Google is being shady at best and flat out illegal at worst. Being a public company, I find it hard to believe that the FTC hasn't stepped in to REQUIRE accurate and comprehensive reporting. It is like someone giving you a bill and not telling you what it's for. There may also be a case of unfair business practices by favoring one company over another for any arbitrary reason. There are laws in place the are suppose to govern against companies doing what they are doing. Their defense however, it always "they agreed to the TOS, they don't have to use our service if they don't want to." With Yahoo and MSN launching their contextual search services, we'll see how long Google can keep their unethical games going.
Aside from my little rant, it is not hard to figure out what percentage you are making.
1) You set up an AdSense and Adwords account.
2) You place the AdSense on a page that no one but you can get to, making the page highly themed around a specific UNCOMMON keyword.
3) You go into your AdWords account and find the highest bid for that keyword (by slowly increasing your bid until you are #1).
4) You view the page with your AdSense and look at the ads that it served. Your ad should be one of the ones that was served for that page. If not, then alter your page content until it is.
5) You click on your ad (only once).
6) Then log into your AdSence account amd there should be only 1 click through with how much you made.
7) You log into your AdWord account and find out how much you paid for that click. (make sure that click is the only click for that keyword)
8) Now you divide how much "commission you made" from how much you know you paid for the click. PRESTO... there is your payout percentage.
Like I said though... I don't think they are static percentages.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2005-Apr-20 09:13
Wow, someone finally understands the basic fundamental issue from last year. Clever trick to get percentages. Wonder if Google might catch yah on that trick and decide to punish the person attempting to find out that way--clever nonetheless.
Last but not least, thought this thread was dead  .
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eschulma
Joined: Feb 25, 2005
# Posts: 27
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Posted: 2005-Jul-26 04:55
It is possible to figure out the revenue percentage. Google is a public company now and must disclose these figures, although it requires some work to figure it out. Of course some people have done this. Do a search on "ad search revenue" and you will turn up the following:
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Year end 2002 it was 88% to AdSense publisher (12% to Google)
Quarter end, march/2003 it was 82% to AdSense publisher (18% to Google)
Year end 2003 it was 77% to AdSense publisher (23% to Google)
Quarter end, march/2004 it was 76% to AdSense publisher (24% to Google)
This is assuming a payout of 91M, 69M, 504M, 262M and a pocketing of 12M, 15M, 144M, 82M respectively to the dates above.
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So certainly, publishers are doing much better than the numbers being tossed around here. However, smart pricing and various other things Google is doing may reduce revenue. I personally have not been too thrilled with it, although I am now trying it on our high-traffic site for the first time so we'll see. As others have said, I'd prefer something that didn't scream "ad", but until Overture is willing to deal with small publishers I'll just have to wait.
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eschulma
Joined: Feb 25, 2005
# Posts: 27
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Posted: 2005-Jul-28 02:55
So, gave AdSense a try on our high traffic site when the affiliate code temporarily had problems...
I have a good idea what these keywords cost, as I bid on them myself. Somehow, Google thought they were worth only 7-10 cents a click, even though they charge me over $1. What their algorithm is, I don't know, but after two days of this I pulled them.
My suggestion: look for quality sites that compliment yours and have a decent affiliate program, and go for that. It's more work, but you may end up with a lot more money, and a less ad-ridden site. I looked at the case studies on AdSense recently, and even there, the interviewees made it clear that they made more from their direct ads!
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