Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2003-Feb-28 21:05
Just to remind... Just because people are surfing at a higher resolution does not mean they want pages that wide. You may find quite a bit surfing at 1024 but actually only use 800-900 as the width of their browsers (see my earlier story). The stats you get from your log analyzers do not tell how wide people have their browser windows. People like me who surf at high resolutions like to size down their browser windows to something like 850 px.
In short, don't assume your logs are accurate for real world surfing habits. 
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xelA
Joined: Nov 24, 1999
# Posts: 1857
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Posted: 2003-Feb-28 22:43
Curt thanks for bringing that up again.
Also, many have mentioned (myself and crash included) that you should target your market segment...
What do you guys think are some effective ways to figure out how your market segment is equiped if you're on a budget?
I mean think of it this way, it's one thing to redesign a site knowing what your statistcs are, but it's another thing to actually go ahead and design a new site and making it fit your demographics.
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Hux
Joined: Dec 02, 2002
# Posts: 1207
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Posted: 2003-Mar-06 00:27
I just took a look at the logs for a half dozen of our sites. The 680 crowd leads by 522. I wouldn't want to switch over to designing for 1024 until they had a considerable lead over 680, let alone when they are behind. On a recent cruise through a friend's office, I noticed that all (over 100) monitors were 15 inch. In another year or so when flat panel is more affordable and there have been wholesale upgrades then it will be time to design for a higher resolution. Until then, that little difference in having to scroll is still a huge annoyance, and to be avoided at all costs.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2003-Mar-06 10:20
IMO, 800 px is about as wide as one should go for any screen resolution (except under very special circumstances). Anything wider and you are treading into uncharted waters and quite possibly irritating your visitors. I get quite irritated with extra wide pages beyond 800 px and I'm surfing with monitor resolution of 1152x864.
I have to resize my browser larger to accommodate the extra width, but would rather keep the right side of my desktop visible so that I can click on often used desktop icons. However, the wider browser window covers them up and if I want to get at them, I end up minimizing the browser and that's just another annoyance.
Besides that paragraphs get harder to follow when they are too wide and I notice at times paragraphs are displayed at near 100% of the expanse of screens. To assume wider is better is not necessarily true or acceptable. Personally, I'd suggest that designers stick to 800 px because that's an all-around comfortable width for most people regardless of screen resolution. Even these forums sorta get hard to follow at times at 800 px wide because the paragraphs span 90% of the total width. If they were forced at 1024, the paragraphs would be so wide I'd get lost in the paragraphs.
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netcservices.co.uk
Joined: Aug 06, 2002
# Posts: 1594
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Posted: 2003-Mar-06 10:58
Its actually 770pixels width in browsers not 800 so be careful as it may go off the end of the screen without you noticing.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14513
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Posted: 2003-Mar-06 15:02
net to optimise for mac, I think it is even less.. 756 if I recall correctly?
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xelA
Joined: Nov 24, 1999
# Posts: 1857
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Posted: 2003-Mar-06 18:49
Curt - FYI you're just a statisctic to most websites if they want to design higher you can't do much about it since you're surfing on a higher resolution. :P No, but seriously I agree with you a designs spanning over 1000px can definitely scare some markets away. This all really depends on your target market. ie. gamers probably wouldn't mind these resolutions.
netcservices - you are half right on that one. You can make the width 780px wide assuming you set the body attributes to
leftmargin="0" marginwidth="0" which is a better use of real estate anyway.
[ Message was edited by: xelA 03/06/2003 12:50 pm ]
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2003-Mar-06 21:09
xelA said:
Curt - FYI you're just a statisctic to most websites if they want to design higher you can't do much about it since you're surfing on a higher resolution. :P ...
Yes I know :-þ
However if these designers care more about their own design than for who their designing for, they will simply put some of us off. I avoid some forums simply because they won't fix their widths and I wonder how many other people are the same way. Design is 40% for yourself and 60% for your visitors (arbitrary percentage picked to get the point across  ).
xelA said:
...No, but seriously I agree with you a designs spanning over 1000px can definitely scare some markets away. This all really depends on your target market. ie. gamers probably wouldn't mind these resolutions.
Many gamers might not mind, but there will be some who do if they have their own surfing style and don't want their browser windows max'ed out.
Sometimes I wonder how many people with large high resolution monitors size down their browsers to expose their own desktop to gain easy access to desktop icons on the left or right side? Am I the only one who surfs like that in these forums?
Anyone else with 1024+ pixel wide screens size down their browsers??
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xelA
Joined: Nov 24, 1999
# Posts: 1857
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Posted: 2003-Mar-06 21:31
Curt, I think I already mentioned that I myself am one of those people that sizes down the browser. Not necessarily to gain access to my desktop but it does allow me to multi task more effectively and work on 8 or so design projects at the same time.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2003-Mar-06 22:12
Hmmm guess I missed your comment on that. Well that's 2 for sizing down browser windows. Anymore of you do that too?
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The Criminologist
Joined: Jan 29, 2001
# Posts: 133
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Posted: 2003-Mar-11 16:15
Personally I have a 21" monitor at my desk at work and it is set to 1280 x 1024. I created a little script that allows me to navigate to a page in my website and resize the browser window to any size I want. (Very helpful to combat scripts that like to maximize your window, but never set it back).
This way I am guaranteed that I can have a browser window at either 10x7, 8x6 or 6x4. Personally I surf with a browser window set at 8x6 so I can see the rest of my desktop. makes Multi tasking easier as well.
When I design sites, I do so in 8x6, but have stretchy tables that expand to fill the width of the rowser so it looks right in any resolution. Either that or I lock the width and I ensure teh empty space is filled with something interesting.
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crash
Staff
Joined: Dec 02, 2003
# Posts: 10626
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Posted: 2003-Mar-11 16:41
"Well that's 2 for sizing down browser windows. Anymore of you do that too?"
Must have missed mine too that's 3 for sizing down browser windows.
"When I design sites, I do so in 8x6, but have stretchy tables that expand to fill the width of the rowser so it looks right in any resolution."
My pref as well.. make that baby fluid.
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netcservices.co.uk
Joined: Aug 06, 2002
# Posts: 1594
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Posted: 2003-Mar-11 16:43
baby fluid! excuse me?
Anyway I would say stretchy tables are the way forward although you have to make sure the initial width is 770 pixels otherwise it goes off the end of the screen.
Stretchy tables or javascript are the way to solve the problems although I am the worlds biggest critic of javascript so im biased in that respect.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2003-Mar-11 20:52
Someone in another forum mentioned an excellent browser resize method by creating bookmarks with JavaScript commands. The method is even more effective in Netscape and Mozilla since you can set direct bookmark tabs and bookmark folders right in the toolbar section of the browser.
For instance, you could create a bookmark called “800×600” that would resize your browser to 800×600 pixel dimensions.
To do that, just go to your bookmark management tools and make a new bookmark and name it “800×600”. In the properties part of the bookmark enter:
for IE4-IE6, NS 6.x-7.x versions, Mozilla 1.x:
...... javascript:moveTo(0,0);resizeTo(800,600)
or for Netscape 4.7x versions:
...... javascript:moveTo(0,0);resizeTo(800,442)
For older Netscape browsers, you will need to compensate pixel size of the browser because Netscape does not render the size of second parameter of 600 for the overall browser size but applies it to the viewing portion of the window. If you don't subtract about 158 pixels from the height parameter, you'll end up with an overall browser hieght of 758 instead of 600 (“800×758” instead of “800×600” for the true dimensions of Netscape 4.7x)
You can set any browser size you want. This is an excellent method to size your browser for seeing what others might see in different screen resolutions. I have one setting for WebTV and several of my sites look pretty crappy and squished. I hope that people who got WebTV finally upgraded to a decent computer with larger resolution 'cause WebTV really limits your viewing.
Some of you should find this trick useful—I certainly did. It also counteracts those unscrupulous web designers who think they can force you to a max. width browser window by inflicting that command on you without warning. I hate when designers resize my main browser window without warning—thankfully most don't do that.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2003-Mar-11 20:57
BTW, I added the “moveTo(0,0);” portion of that command to set the left top end to the 0,0 coordinates of the screen. You might opt to remove that part or set the coordinates to something else if desired.
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pjnunn777
Joined: Jul 17, 2003
# Posts: 381
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Posted: 2003-Apr-09 12:53
I find that it depends on the audience too. I have a couple of sites up and running. Ones orientated to home users see approximately 46% 1024 x 768 and use mainly Win XP. The sites orientated to business users use about 60-70% 800 x 600 and Win NT in the main.
By the way, I'm in the UK if this makes any difference.
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netcservices.co.uk
Joined: Aug 06, 2002
# Posts: 1594
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Posted: 2003-Apr-09 13:17
Excell, why would anyone want to optimize for a mac!!! The only things macs are good for a using as blunt instruments in acts of random destruction.
But yeah 756px you say humm well back to the drawing board then 
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pjnunn777
Joined: Jul 17, 2003
# Posts: 381
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Posted: 2003-Apr-09 13:31
Netcservices,
I use both Mac and PC and whilst I take your point it's not really worth optimising a site specifically for mac's, it is worth making your site as accessible to mac owners as it is to PC owners. After all, its only a few pixels. Anyway, virtually all new mac's operate at 1024 or higher...
There are also niche markets where mac's are much more prolific than PC's - look around any publishing house for example.
And...mac's are cool...
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netcservices.co.uk
Joined: Aug 06, 2002
# Posts: 1594
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Posted: 2003-Apr-09 13:40
The only thing I like about Macs are the colours and cases. If I had the time id get an iMac and torture it and rip its insides out and stick a dual AMD board in there "if I could get it to fit".
That would be the only way I would ever use one.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2003-Apr-09 22:49
Macs have other resolution settings. When I used the old power macs 650 and 700, I believe the 17 inch screens were set at 1024 or higher. The only thing that makes macs sorta a rip-off now days is the price. Of course the one button mouse is a pain because you can't do right clicks to get to menu functions. Other than that they worked OK.
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