nnclyn
Joined: Nov 29, 2003
# Posts: 25
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Posted: 11/29/2003 07:28 pm
LOL!!! Very relevant. Applause.
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Curious_Mark
Moderator
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
# Posts: 2142
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Posted: 11/29/2003 07:36 pm
Does anybody else feel that inbound links that are keyword rich are a huge target of this algo change?
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SearchEngineZ
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
# Posts: 55
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Posted: 11/29/2003 07:54 pm
weightlossforall.com:
At the start of this thread, I posted the three things that are triggering the filter:
- text of internal links containing those keywords
- text of reciprocal links containing those keywords
- those keywords in the URL
One of the two keywords is in the URL, and every other page in your site is linking to the page in question using he exact keyphrase. If you had just a site map, and a link from the homepage, like most un-SEOed sites, then you would never have had such a high ranking in the first place. Google has removed the weight given to all those internal links, to normalize the results.
It may also be a factor that your site offers reciprocal links.
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doveguy
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 39
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Posted: 11/29/2003 08:21 pm
Personally, I'm not seeing any problems with my keyword rich inbound links.
It might be a good idea to study a site that was doing well both before and after yhe update. This site actually jumped from #3 to #2 with the change. Will give a fake example here(the walls have ears they say), but structure is exactly as spelled out:
Domain:www.blue-widgets.us (2 of the 3 target keywords are in the URL)
Target keywords: blue + widgets + rackets
Links: 50 inbound links generated/managed by linkpartners/linksmanager.com, ALL with text that reads "blue widgets rackets"
Internal linking structure: DHTML drop menu for humans, site map for engines.
Bottom of each page (except index page) has a link to home page with keywordss "blue widgets rackets home".
The purpose of this page is to generate interest from the 2nd most searched keywords in my business, and then ferry them over to the main site to buy. However, the site itself is setup well and is informative.
, but I've been aiming at a three keyword phrase as in "blue widgets express". I have about 50 inbound links all generated and managed from linkpartners/linksmanagers.com. Link is: keyword1 + keyword2 + keyword3. I'm sitting at #2, while my competitor at #1's site is structured as: www.keyword1-keyword2-keyword3.com.
Personally, I think this whole thing comes down to Google trying to build revenue during the Christmas season by making us want to buy adwords after our rankings drop.
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watling
Joined: Nov 29, 2003
# Posts: 104
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Posted: 11/29/2003 10:12 pm
Excell, thank you for your input!
Right now I'm only adding content to my local site. I'm not "messing" at all with SEO - alchemy to me, at best. (I have upped my bids on PPC options, including Google's "Adwords" though. That gets expensive - perhaps the new cost of doing online biz.)
As a Realtor, I elected not to register my site with costly national mega-directories such as realtor.com, etc., in favor of putzing on my own to create a truly unique local resource for folks searching for "(city) (state) real estate." I thought that made good sense. Countless clients ... thanks in large part to Google ... agreed.
Now it appears Google has determined web surfers will be better served by digging through national directories and megasites and wading through countless multiple-question forms to locate relevant local info.
Guess that means I have to create a national directory/megasite to best attract folks to locate the info they want.
Or am I missing something?!
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stevenjm
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 824
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Posted: 11/29/2003 10:37 pm
I am actually wondering why directories are doing so well. Am even wondering if the word "directory" has become some sort of google power word.
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jely
Joined: Nov 29, 2003
# Posts: 2
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Posted: 11/29/2003 10:53 pm
dang, dropped from #1 to #250! grrrr. The funny thing is, the client was *just* complaining last week about turning up #5 for a week.
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001
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
# Posts: 64
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Posted: 11/30/2003 12:50 am
Ok, check this out:
Looks like my rankings are starting to come back. A couple of 1 and 2 word keyphrases I optimized for are back in Google and in the highest positions yet! And these are keywords that are EXACT internal links that point back to the listed page. IN FACT, one of them is the first time I've ever been listed in Google.
The only 'downer' is my main keyphrase (2 words) is still AWOL.
Maybe Google is starting to rectify this situation?? Is ANYONE out there getting any of their rankings back?? If so, let us know. Keeping fingers crossed.
Lee
Lee
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excell
Moderator
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14495
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Posted: 11/30/2003 02:02 am
...on my own to create a truly unique local resource for folks searching for "(city) (state) real estate." I thought that made good sense. Countless clients ... thanks in large part to Google ... agreed.
Now it appears Google has determined web surfers will be better served by digging through national directories and megasites and wading through countless multiple-question forms to locate relevant local info.
Guess that means I have to create a national directory/megasite to best attract folks to locate the info they want.
Or am I missing something?!
I wouldn't shift your path at all...I would much rather find a hand created meaningful website than wade through dry and often bare directory sites...It's a shame you have to up your spend on advertising but hopefully it will only be temporary for you..
The other aspect is to monitor your traffic and build on the strength of highly targeted terms and what exactly is converting, rather than focus on the main competitive terms (as a long term).
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Curious_Mark
Moderator
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
# Posts: 2142
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Posted: 11/30/2003 08:18 am
So far for me one client site in particular which has fared well with Google after the changes fares even better! The site is certainly optimized and has a generous amount of internal links that use keywords/phrases. Lucky so far it seems. The site in question does not have a single inbound link with keywords in it. I am not trying to draw any conclusion from that observation, just mentioning it.
On that point, I still wonder if having many keyword rich inbound links is not at the least a big look at me sign for Google. It would be a great indicator for them from my thinking of a site to look at. Only Google truly knows.
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SEOK
Joined: Jul 24, 2002
# Posts: 288
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Posted: 11/30/2003 08:42 am
"Only Google truly knows."
Not so sure about that... I don't think many at google could even buy a clue...
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edit_pal
Joined: Nov 27, 2003
# Posts: 93
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Posted: 11/30/2003 09:55 am
I think you are too heavy on your keywords. The number two site has 8 occurrances to your 15 with similar amount of text...this tells me you are over the limit. What I have noticed is that the winning sites (page 1) seem to either have very dense keywords, or the name in the URL. When the name is in the URL, density is lower by about half.
good luck...
L
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republicjc
Joined: Nov 27, 2003
# Posts: 9
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Posted: 11/30/2003 11:21 am
I have seen many new high ranked pages with only 1 instance of the keyword and these are just 1 page sites with no content. These were sites made a few years ago and forgotten about until Google felt they are new useful and relevant! I searched for Beanie Baby in which I used to be ranked high and now am down to about #400! The site beaniebestbuy.com is full on content and keywords. The new#6 spot goes to a "page not found" with url of beaniebabies.com. Google states on their site ""A Google search is an easy, honest and objective way to find high-quality websites with information relevant to your search."
Which of course is now blatent False advertising !
In desperation I ran to Google AdWords (like they planned on) for a temporary fix and they even kicked me off of there as my ad had the word "Best" and they don't allow that...ugh..the website is BeanieBestBuy ..give me a break !!
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stevenjm
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 824
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Posted: 11/30/2003 02:16 pm
"The site in question does not have a single inbound link with keywords in it. I am not trying to draw any conclusion from that observation, just mentioning it."
most of my sites have keywords in the incoming links(but only in about 10 or less) and have not suffered whatsoever.
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jbgilbert
Joined: Sep 16, 2002
# Posts: 321
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Posted: 11/30/2003 02:42 pm
For all you who believe (like Google seems to) that Google is the biggest, the best, unbeatable and untouchable...... take note of this:
At Thanksgiving dinner my brother-in-law (who nows nothing about SEO or what I do) told me that Google SUCKS! "Why do you say that", I asked.
he said, "Because, for the last few days I've been doing geneology research and when I search for my name, Google shows me pages that don't even mention my name"!
My point is:
1) When my poor dumb ole brother-in-law considers Google results bad -- THEY MUST BE BAD.... REALLY BAD!
2) If my brother-in-law has noticed it already, then many, many, many other casual users probably have too.
3) Google is not yet doomed for immediate replacement as the world's #1 used search engine. Google may not care what all the SEO's have to say, BUT, Google better damn well pay attention when casual users (uncles, aunt and in-laws) everywhere are condeming Google results over dinner!
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stevenjm
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 824
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Posted: 11/30/2003 02:56 pm
it must be getting worked on anyway as google.com.au is today returning about 43,500 for the search term sydney bed and breakfast. Up until yesterday it was returning about 850,000
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stevenjm
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 824
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Posted: 11/30/2003 03:01 pm
Now make that 688,000
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tdubya
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 186
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Posted: 12/01/2003 02:53 am
I've found if searching for keyword2 keyword1 rather than keyword1 keyword2 of my top keyphrase pre-update I am back on the front page. Shame I can't just swap my keywords around on the site as it wouldn't make any sense
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tdubya
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 186
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Posted: 12/01/2003 02:59 am
Incidently any search for keyword1 keyword2 + any other keyword also puts me back on page 1. I think my next step will be to add some filler words between keyword1 and keyword2 and see if that provides any success.
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nickn0783
Joined: Mar 26, 2002
# Posts: 1371
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Posted: 12/01/2003 06:16 am
my workmate just did a search for [xmas & women] and then asked me to try the same search! A respectable 164,000 results means their not exactly short of sites for this search... and at #6 is a site about... granny p0rn 
What the hell has that got to do with women n xmas?! 
Happening far too much since this new algo change, I have been rather impressed with All The Web lately... its much more relevant than last time I was using it!
[ Message was edited by: nickn0783 12/01/2003 06:35 am ]
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