Printer Friendly Version
Email this thread to a friend
|
Featured Web Site Template |
|
There are 0 guests and 1 members in the forums right now.
Reflects user activity within the last 5 minutes
|
|
| Member |
Message |
etreus
Joined: Dec 17, 2000
# Posts: 412
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-22 19:17
sirduncan, are you getting orders?
I have my addwords up there, the same, but no orders in 5 days now.
With reference to results, some sites remain similar, but I have seen very strange things, as for example PR0 and no backlinks occupying first positions on competitive keyphrases.
Maybe it doesn't involve all the database but some, for sure.
|
 |
nuttakorn
Joined: Apr 17, 2002
# Posts: 10
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-22 20:33
I think so , Google is updating their algorithm. Search Engine results change every time and ranking sometime show sometime disappear.
|
|
taudette
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 72
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-22 20:57
Might seem like a silly question, but has Google made any attempt to respond/answer/explain what has happened. No press release, web site comments, or anything?
I guess if they did, these threads wouldn't exist.
Wish they'd throw us a bone.
:D
|
|
Pelagia
Joined: Feb 28, 2001
# Posts: 10
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-22 21:08
Ugh, sounds nauseating but I don't see any changes for my search terms, everything is where it has allways been for the past few days. (Knock on wood.)
|
|
OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6806
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-22 22:38
"has Google made any attempt to respond/answer/explain what has happened. No press release, web site comments, or anything?"
The answer is no, and why would they? All this is a major update to their algorithm, filters, Directory and presumably PageRank. They have cleverly combined all of the above changes to help prevent search engine optimizers from figuring out the changes. Their objective is to provide the best quality search results to searchers - i.e. "Joe and Jill Average" searcher's view, not "Stan SEO" the search engine optimizer's view of what is "best". To prevent Stan SEO and others like him from manipulating Google's search results, they keep their algorithm and filters confidential, so they aren't going to be making any public announcements.
No-one at Google has ever tried to claim they get these changes perfectly correct - i.e. there isn't some collateral damage against innocent sites and so their engineers make subsequent adjustments to try and limit the collateral damage.
I have read every post in every thread in these forums and elsewhere, about every Google update since Google started and I can say that every thread is the basically same, including queries about Google has made any announcements about the update, demands that they must make announcements about the update, comments that the results are now garbage, and demands that they must change things back (i.e. that the demander's site is back at its previous position or better, instead of being buried).
The only time they say anything is when there are unexpected (to their engineers) consequences or where the update is going to take a particularly long time (eg like the April-July one) but even then it is minimal.
This is just an update. As usual, there is collateral damage and I expect the engineers will make some changes to minimize such damage once they get their hands around the problem. But this takes time.
|
|
Keensurfer
Joined: Nov 05, 1999
# Posts: 885
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-22 23:44
The days of "Stan SEO" being able to manipulate search engines by stuffing keywords, doorway pages, cloaking, etc...long have been a thing of the past. I believe the SEO profession is no longer today one of "manipulation" but one of education. Educating clients to do the right things. Getting them to build sites with good domain names, superior content, and market them assertively.
Why would Google explain what they've done? Well, ummm...they do have a product that is consumed, this time of year consumed very heavily. Their product "tastes different now." They have changed their product in a major way. Most companies I know, even software companies, don't make major changes to their product without communication to their customers as to why they've made them. That's a very different concept then "revealing algorithms."
That said, it is Google's product and they don't need anybody's permission to change it. Like OAC said, their engineers will measure and adapt changes if changes need to be made.
The reason I started this thread is not to moan, whine, or complain. I am merely stating an observation. From what I've seen from this update, Google is returning FAR less relevant results than they were 2 days ago. Being it's the most popular Search Engine in the world, it doesn't surprise me that people want to talk about it. It also doesn't surprise me that there's a lot of worry, nervousness and even some anger. Communication is a healthy thing. That's why people frequent forums. To share views, learn...and yes, sometimes vent.
|
|
DANXtendlife
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 58
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 00:02
Keensurfer,
You're spot on.
Even if I didn't make one nickle from Google's search results, I can objectively say that what I am seeing is pure unadulterated crap.
That's the plain truth.
Content is no longer king...at least not of the moment...from where I stand.
Some people are obviously very happy. Imagine you have a site that just has links to products, almost no content, keyterms that aren't even on target....and boom, you wake up one morning and see you're in the top 10 for a hot, competitive keyterm.
Of course, you're going to be beside yourself with joy.
But are you benefitting Google visitors? Not much.
As I said on a different thread, I firmly believe that if your site would benefit someone regardless if they purchased anything or not, then you have a site that adds value to pure search results. If not, then you don't.
What I am seeing now, with a few minor exceptions, are basically sites that fit the latter description.
Yes, I'm frustrated. But, I think Google is going to get it good and hard if this keeps up...and much worse than any of us, considering how much they have to lose.
And although I wish them no ill will, if they stay with these kinds of lame results (not for us SEO's, but for John Doe) then they will get what they deserve and I will have no sympathy for them whatsoever.
Business is littered with companies that were once king of the hill, and then some years later, relegated to the trash bin of history.
-Dan
|
|
thejenn
Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 03:50
I've got to say, from what I'm seeing, it really depends on the individual phrase.
For some, sure, I'm not seeing the sites that should be listed from an SEO/algorithm point of view...but they are still relevant sites. Remember, that for most searches, especially product related searches, there can be hundreds of sites that could be listed first and still keep the average consumer searcher happy. Just because the site has no SEO business being there doesn't mean it's a bad site. (And Google doesn't care what we think, they care what consumers think.)
On the other hand, I've had a handful of searches in the last week or two that returned total rubbish. We're talking 8 of the top ten listings being doorway pages for the same site, which is crap and irrelevant to what I was searching for. Results that would actually make a consumer searcher upset. But...these types of results are still, from what I'm seeing, the exception, rather than the rule.
The perspective that is hard to keep from our point of view is that of relevance. We're so used to viewing things from an SEO point of view, rather than a consumer point of view, that it's very easy to start calling the Google results crap, when in fact, the average searcher doesn't notice ANY difference on 99% of searches.
|
|
Keensurfer
Joined: Nov 05, 1999
# Posts: 885
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 04:06
I have a ton of field testing experience of new products. I'm very used to looking at things through the consumers eyes, capturing consumer/user feedback, reporting it back to Product Development, getting the appropriate changes made to the product to satisfy the market, then field testing again.
Actually, Google has been my search engine of choice. My perception is that the results have slid in a major way. Major enough, that if they stay this way, Google will not be my search engine of choice. My two cents are, many users of Google will do the same. I think your guess that 99% won't notice is off substantially.
My guess is Google is probably already working on the tweaks to get it right because that's been their core competency. Getting it right for the searcher.
|
|
DANXtendlife
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 58
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 04:07
thejenn,
Thanks for your comments.
However, I am not just a webmaster, but a frequent consumer of Google (and other search engines as well).
In short, like that infamous hair loss guy: "I'm not only the president; I'm also a client."
I don't think it's impossible for me to be objective; in fact, far from it.
Let me give you an hypothetical. If I am searching for the term "nutritional supplements" I want to see results that offer content/information, not just 8 out of 10 sites with links to products and don't help educate me.
Afterall, if all I wanted was links to products, Google Adwords has that covered already. Adwords was meant to be a COMPLEMENT to pure search results, not a redundancy, nor a replacement.
The fact of the matter is, I think the vast majority of people (consumers) would agree that a site that provides both relevant content and options to purchase products is much more preferable than sites that only contain links to products.
-Dan
|
|
2create
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 42
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 04:08
Excellent point, thejenn. I bet if you were to ask a handful of random surfers that have used Google since the "big change", a vast majority of them probably wouldn't notice much of a difference. Even though my particular rank has dropped for an important keyword phrase, I have to admit that the sites that are in the top 10 are indeed relevant. I haven't seen any of the "bad results" that many people are complaining about here. I'm not denying that they're out there, but I don't know if those results are going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
We're all frustrated 'cause we've lost our good rankings, but I haven't seen anything significant that I feel will cause an uproar with the average Joe Surfer. It's easy for us to pick apart every search result 'cause we're looking for the specifics. But how much is Joe Surfer really affected by all this?
And as thejenn said, the consumer is who Google aims to please first. Not us.
I just think it's unrealistic to believe that Google would use the same algorithm forever. This was bound to happen sooner or later.
[ Message was edited by: 2create 11/22/2003 08:51 pm ]
|
|
PCInk
Joined: Sep 13, 2001
# Posts: 479
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 11:56
>>> ... the realization that the only relevant results currently within their SERP are the paid advertising.
What? With new expanded broad match? Relevant?
I use FAST for searching now. It is very good. The results are better than Google at the moment. There will be people abandoning ship unless Google sort themselves out - word of mouth advertising for their competitors spreads very quickly.
|
|
rezgurl
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 6
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 14:53
Wow -- someome please write to me! I have been so busy that for the past couple weeks I've been out of the loop. What is WRONG with google? All the results look goofy and for over the past year, I've enjoyed a 1-3 top ranking in my category...now I can't even find me!
|
|
rezgurl
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 6
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 14:54
Wow -- someome please write to me! I have been so busy that for the past couple weeks I've been out of the loop. What is WRONG with google? All the results look goofy and for over the past year, I've enjoyed a 1-3 top ranking in my category...now I can't even find me!
|
|
g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10438
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 15:47
[dupe]
[ Message was edited by: g1smd 11/23/2003 08:00 am ]
|
|
g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10438
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 15:48
Lots of people have reported that effect, but none of my sites have moved at all.
What update?
|
|
davaddavad
Joined: Aug 02, 2001
# Posts: 928
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 17:04
rezgirl well goggles filter for nov pretty much eliminated all the .com sites keyword1 keyword2 searches
from the majority of its index. however if you add a third keyword you might still be able to find your index page again. There are thousands of posts out there now and of the thousand there are only a handful that have reported no effect of update florida. I have been following its effects since it started. both black hat and white hat sites have been hit. so hopefully your traffic will still be able to find you thru either directory links from yahoo or dmoz they have come up in the rankings because all the relevant site arent there anymore and they need some kind of result for a user search. and if your not paying ppc adwords or overture you probably wont be found for you keywords this season. I believe its all about money and googles ipo
yahoo is about to unleash its new search properties however unless I am mistaken they own 10% of google and it would not be to their advantage to blow them out of the water till after googles 4th quarter earnings have been inflated and establish. jmho
|
|
Logan
Joined: Aug 14, 2002
# Posts: 3749
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-23 17:52
goggles filter for nov pretty much eliminated all the .com sites keyword1 keyword2 searches
and if your not paying ppc adwords or overture you probably wont be found for you keywords this season.
I believe its all about money and googles ipo
imo, these are all broad overstatements. Its not about an ipo, yahoo rolling out a new search (when?) or no dot com sites coming up for two word search phrases.
both black hat and white hat sites have been hit
This is often the case when something changes (new algo/filters) across the board. When new algo/filters are put in place google has previously commented that they will use 'different/known' data sets so that they can evaluate the changes appropriately. Things will change again - and just as many sites will be at the top of the search rankings again - perhaps they will be different ones again. I suspect so.
|
|
ferret77
Joined: May 31, 2002
# Posts: 354
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-24 00:03
g1smd
I seen you post that "what update" crap on another thread but when I asked if you sites where targeting some non-compettive terms you didn't answer
I ask you again , the sites you saw no change on, are they sites targeting real search terms
I have about 10 sites that still number 1 for there targets but they are weak targets not really sought after ones
|
|
OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6806
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-24 01:50
Well if it eases your mind ferret77, I have a client operating in a highly competitive category whose position in Google's top 10 for their main keyword1 keyword2 terms (highly competitive) have either remained the same, or improved.
Here are three of the results:
term 1 - improved from #7 to #6 (7,000k+ of competing pages)
term 2 - improved from #3 to #1 (3,500k+ of competing pages)
term 3 - improved from #10 to #7 (2,500k+ of competing pages)
The fact is that if Site A disappears from its #1 position for keyword1 keyword2, doesn't mean Google leaves a blank space for that position - some other site replaces it.
While my client has had their pages made search engine friendly, the real reason for their top positions is all the hard work they have done providing a site chock full of excellent content, such that it has become an important resource.
That is not to say however, that Googles' results in other categories has been as good, from reports made by some. Thejenn noted that results vary. Like g1smd, I am unaware of search terms where the results have deteriorated from prior to the update, as none of my clients have experienced such a problem. I can understand you being upset at the moment but just because some are saying they have not been adversely affected by this update, doesn't mean that what they are saying isn't true.
As has been suggested in other threads, the Google engineers will be working on making some adjustments because their objective is produce quality results across the board. Just hang in there, your dissatisfaction may not last once adjustments are made. A similar thing happened with the previous major update.
|
|
You are not permitted to post messages in this forum or topic, because of one or more of the following reasons:
- You have not yet logged in, or registered properly as a member
- You are a member, but no longer have posting rights.
- This is a private forum, for which you do not have permissions.
If you are a recent member, it's possible that you simply have not yet confirmed your account. Please
check your email for a message entitled 'JimWorld Forums: Confirm Your Account' and follow the instructions
contained within.
If you cannot find this message, click here to Re-Send it.
|
If you are still experiencing problem, please read the
Login Assistance
Article for some advice on what may be causing your login not to work properly.
|
Switch to Advanced Editor and ...
Create a New Topic
or Reply to this Thread
|
|
Inbox
