cabbagehead
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 532
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 04:14
They're not simply removing commerce sites. In fact, if you look at the top 10 for the term "discount travel", they're all eComm sites!
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ecmast
Joined: Apr 17, 2002
# Posts: 76
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 05:09
I was no. 1 for one of my keywords a week back. While I am still no. 1 for keyword (singular), I have disappeared for keywords (plural). Any logical explanation for this?
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polarlight
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 6
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 05:31
Here's another thought: Google wants to change people's habits and make them learn to type in primarily 3-word phrases to find what they are looking for - as a result of this new learned behavior, Joe Surfer will then find a set of decent SERPs to find the commercial sites where he can buy the things he is looking for. From an SEO perspective, this is great, since we don't have to do anything different than what we've been doing for years. Mark my words - if this update is all finished, you will see a dramatic rise in the use of 3-word phrases by Joe Surfer to find the products he wants to buy!
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going for a nice long bike ride tomorrow...your best bet is to keep yourself healthy and just ride this one out until the dust settles... 
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rocket_rob
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 156
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 12:06
3 word searches? Makes sense maybe after a more general search but how do you find the information to make a more specific search!!? I just bought a humidifier and I searched "humidifier". Only later did I use "aprilaire humidifier 700". Without a personal non-internet referral to aprilaire I would have never in a million years bought this item. I would have bought a Honeywell. There are so many things that you would only use a 1 or 2 terms search phrase for I find it hard to believe that displaying crap for the 1 and 2 term phrases is Google's new m.o.
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jeffers
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 27
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 14:18
If it aint broke, don't fix it
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kevinbuff
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 4
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 14:52
001,
No, I'm not saying they won't find anything, I'm just stating what's coming up in the results. For example 'infant clothing' you're starting to see more sites about infant clothing safety, and recalls, and what not. Yes there's still some big commercial companies in the top 10, but not many. Another example is fiber optic modems. You use to see pages in the top 10 that were actual products. Now the top listings have more tutorials about fiber optics.
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jesbasementsystems
Joined: Sep 27, 2001
# Posts: 269
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 15:09
I noticed something strange about the results..... all of my rankigns are gone except for single word keywords. For my examples, I still have top ten rankings for single word phrases like "cabinets", but not two word phrases like "kitchen cabinets", or my three word phrases "custom kitchen cabinets" or "unfinished kitchen cabinets"
stranger.....
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JasonUK
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 15:23
Recently came across this article on issues we're already discussing which certainly reflects my own experience:
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Google Update
Google recently introduced a new keyword phrase filter during its most recent update. Some phrases were unchanged, but many highly optimized and highly competitive phrases were drastically altered. Some webmasters saw their sites drop from top listings to not being in the top 1,000 sites. Unlike other filters, this spam peanalty does not affect a page or sites overall perceived value. The end effect is lowered rankings for various specific searches for that page.
If you have a couple commonly paired words on your website such as "search" and "marketing", the new filter will check to see how the words are placed on your page (and possibly in incoming links). The new algorithm is looking for more naturally existing context to prevent search engine optimized websites from dominating search results. Essentially the goal of this filter is to get webmasters to adjust their content to be written for the users and not search engines. The problem with this logic is that good SEO typically falls in line with good site and page structure.
The filter is selective in that it is only enabled for some terms on certain searches. The filter can be overridden by placing a - character for the terms. If you search for search marketing you will find Commision Junction where my site was once listed. If you search for search-marketing you will see my site. If you search for search marketing info, you will see that the filter in not enabled for that search.
Off the start the filter was set rather corse, but it appears to be shifting more in line with reality. Some of the decent optimized sites are appearing back in the place where spam was just filling the results. Just this morning I saw a clients website pop up for two seperate phrases he was tripped for.
This filter marks the first time in search engine history where webmasters have not been able to reengineer exactly what the search engine did. Currently I do not recommend making any chages while Google is still fine tuning the filter.
by Aaron Wall @ Search Engine Marketing Info
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 15:37
oh yup jes.. you are really highly relavent for the one word but you just ain't relavent for what you really have.. makes great sense.. I think not 
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polarlight
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 6
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 18:00
rocket_rob -
I was only joking about the 3-word phrases! I totally agree with you that 1 and 2 word phrases are important - Google is playing a very dangerous game right now. For example, if I want to buy a weathervane, a lot of people will simply type in 'weather vanes' and another large group of people will type in 'weathervanes' - but right now, you get a very poor set of results for these 2 search terms on Google - I know most of the good weathervane sites (I helped to optimize a couple of them) - and many of them are now off the map. This new algorithm will create a lot of grief for Google, unless they make a very quick correction - like before this coming weekend, when the Christmas season begins. I wouldn't hold my breath, though...
Everyone have a good Thanksgiving - I'm off for my bike ride...
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 18:05
Jason.. just to say yup - good to watch what others say.
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JasonUK
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 18:41
Ah sorry - I see my last post 'quote' was previously included on another thread!
The interesting thing with this whole Google fiasco is that looking at our sales (we capture search engine/referrer string including keywords searched) we're still getting broadly the same number from google as we were earlier in the month when we were top 3 for our main search phrases. The google sales are coming on our longer / secondary keywords (dare I say more targetted?!). This suggests (for our site at least) that either google users are trying keyword variations having been dissatisfied with the dross they initially find or our 2-word keywords are not that productive in terms of conversion to sales.
Oh crap that gives me even more to think about .....
Jason
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haus
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
# Posts: 25
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 18:47
This new algorithm will create a lot of grief for Google, unless they make a very quick correction - like before this coming weekend, when the Christmas season begins. I wouldn't hold my breath, though...
Right (breathes deeply). I'm thinking that if Google perceived anything "wrong" with the current search results, they'd have changed by now. After all, things have been awry for at least a week now, the buzz is starting to grow, and people still do work all-nighters when there's a major failure. So I think google doesn't perceive a failure (which is at least partially wrong IMHO).
This is not just a case of bitterness. One of my sites has indeed been dropped entirely; the other has dropped about 10 places. But there *are* distinct failures in the new search results on my most relevant keywords. There are sites listed twice (on subsequent pages), and there are sites listed that have NO CONTENT - i.e. they are white pages in the browser with no words, images, or source. Duplicated and blank results cannot be a sign of a healthy search engine; they waste searchers' time. I don't care if the new filter drops me 10 spaces and puts 10 more relevant sites ahead of me. But putting results ahead of me that help no one is really disappointing.
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SEOK
Joined: Jul 24, 2002
# Posts: 288
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 19:59
Google = Big hairy convict sentenced to life without parole.
SEOs = Juvenille recently sentenced as an adult for 5 years.
With this update we SEOs get to explore what it feels like to bunk with Google. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this experience is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth!
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Bry
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 207
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 20:31
WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END?!?
I'm calm, I really am. So in fact there is a new algorithm that they are testing that is screwing a lot of highly optimized sites. It's refreshing to finally know what the cause is of this madness even though my site is still in the crapper for the best keyphrases.
I have analyzed everything and I can confirm that this theory is correct in my case. The "highly" optimized home page of my site has been vanquished from the top 20 although it was on an impressive climb into the top 10. Other highly optimized internal pages have been banished into oblivion as well. A search with the dash between the keywords places my main page back into the top 200 even though it now appears nowehere within the non-dash rankings.
However the "moderately optimized" pages have assumed #1 slots in less lucrative key phrases, but they are #1 slots none the less.
So my personal plan is to let this ride for 2 more weeks to see if we resurface in the rankings. If that doesn't happen, I'll be de-optimizing the highly optimized pages to see what happens. Hopefully this will not cause our MSN, and other listings to slip.
It's a pity too, because the highly optimized text reads beautifully for potential clients. Do you hear that Google? It reads beautifully! *cry*
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bupper2
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
# Posts: 12
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 20:38
You guys are all over thinking this whole thing. This is a glitch or a virus. It does not only affect 2 keyword phrases. It does not only effect top keyword phrases. It does not only effect spam sites. Some of the worst spam sites have moved up. This is a glitch, a mistake, or a virus of some type.
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Bry
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 207
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 21:03
It's no virus. It's intentional. GoogleGuy over at WebmasterWorld confirms that this is the "Florida Update". It's a big mess and it's affecting all keyword phrases. I am surprised at all the spam that has moved up in the rankigns though. Any tweaks they make should remove more spam instead of punishing the white hats.
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001
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
# Posts: 64
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 21:55
We're all idiots!
Our first problem is trusting ANY entity who's name sounds like a baby spitting up!
Lee
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Pongo
Joined: May 27, 2002
# Posts: 665
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 22:36
Gergle - the sound google makes going down the drain
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sagegreen
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 23:33
Has Google started a mass migration.
In just 10 years various search engines and directories have held the crown as most popular.
Anyone remember the worldwidewebworm ?
Yahoo and altavista have held the crown but Google has sat on the throne longer than any other.
Why did the majority of searchers migrate to google in the first place.
1. speed
2. relevancy
3. fair listings
I think so.
Each of these appeal to different sectors. Speed: most important to the researcher. Relevancy: also important to the researcher but equally important to the casual user that still finds the technolgy daunting. Fair Listings: this important to those that use the search engines to promote.
In light of recent events I believe some of the other search engines now fulfill these requirements equally as well. Not for me to suggest a winner, as we all have different needs, but people will begin to try other search engines if Google doesn't solve its current crisis and the migration will start it next round.
I sincerely hope that the story reported by the Seattle Post recently regarding Microsoft & Google is not the root of the current debacle.
Sagegreen
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