Printer Friendly Version
Email this thread to a friend
|
Featured Web Site Template |
|
There are 0 guests and 1 members in the forums right now.
Reflects user activity within the last 5 minutes
|
|
| Member |
Message |
g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10286
|
Posted: 11/12/2004 04:20 pm
Glad you like the forum. The programming is done by one person! (ummm, not me).
It will be very interesting to see where this "new larger Google index" goes.
|
 |
lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
|
Posted: 11/13/2004 01:35 pm
The programming is done by one person!
That's all it takes if it's the right person. I like the quick reply, is that a phpbb mod?
Anyway, I checked a sandboxed key word phrase that I've been patiently waiting to see rise from the dead. Before I rebranded that site, 3 months or so ago, it was happily top 5 google, so that's my check to see how long the current sandbox lasts for.
I checked after google finally consolodated their primary and secondary indexes, that's the increase of 4 billion, my assumption is that they had it split into two 32 bit indexing systems, a primary and secondary one.
So they are clearly still holding back pages, although the change is too recent to really get a grip on, it could also be a total red herring, that's completely possible, simply saying yes we have 8 billion pages indexed, and not mentioning that they are in separate indexes. In other words, a technically true but misleading statement.
I'll be taking a closer looks at the serps to see if I can find any significant changes since November 10, but it's quite possible that google simply rushed that out to match the MSN beta release, which is getting a lot of press, some of that press might have pointed out the fact that googles index had been frozen for almost a year at the same page count, might have started asking awkward questions...
Anyway, I like the quality of posts here, stuff that's worth reading, like the interface, not bloated junk like searchenginewatch has. Do my own forums but I don't really want to get too much into the search engine end of things there, these seem decent. And no googleguy, no msndude, no yahoomike. Hopefully anyway, my pet peeve is having company reps on a board, messes with objectivity, dialogue changes, people look to them for something more than pr releases.
|
|
galway
Joined: Apr 26, 2004
# Posts: 300
|
Posted: 11/15/2004 09:04 am
I have watched the post develop with interest and am not sure how much longevity there is left here, just a couple of points, whatever happens one thing is certain, a monopoly such as the one we currently have is a bad thing, it allows flawed and alter-agenda practices to be implemented without accountability, its common throughout any walk of industry. Secondly IE may well be flawed but I agree with an earlier post the majority of end users are happy, in fact many techies say they are unhappy with it through some sort of ideology, our server administrator himself actually makes part of his other duties more difficult because he doesnt wish to use IE and thats because Bill has so much dosh. 
The children of today are spending millions of hours playing computer games, the majority of these computer games need windows to run and IE is an integral part of windows, the children of today are the end users of tomorrow. They are Windows/MSN/IE born and bred, they will not be debating whether to use Google browser of IE or anything else.
They will grow up today using Microsoft and Windows and IE, that will transcend into their school experience and for many that is what their first industry experience will be(other than perhaps print and publishing etc) that is what Google is up against, how do they raise the finances to break the grass roots, as I stated earlier IE is on every PC sold in the world!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
|
Posted: 11/15/2004 09:54 am
Interesting points again, galway. A few technical issues though: firefox etc are increasing marketshare. They are Windows/MSN/IE born and bred, they will not be debating whether to use Google browser of IE or anything else.
Kids do what is cool. IE is not cool, Firefox is cool. I've had no trouble getting kids to use firefox [that's keeping the analysis at the kid level]. The best kids are doing Linux, it's the most interesting thing out there. Numbers wise Windows of course has almost total dominance.
But aside from familiarity, something that users fear is insecurity. That's why Firefox is growing so fast, it's recommended constantly in the mainstream, issues are security, always. These issues are caused by fundamental design decisions in IE, primarily deep linking of browser to OS, admin rights to ActiveX, many other severe issues already mentioned.
On commercial sites I do 8% Mozilla is not uncommon, on tech sites 50+% is not uncommon.Secondly IE may well be flawed but I agree with an earlier post the majority of end users are happy, in fact many techies say they are unhappy with it through some sort of ideology,
Techies are not unhappy with IE because of ideology, they are unhappy with it because it's an insecure product, and it's technically inferior in most ways to Firefox, Firefox has far superior CSS cababities than IE, although IE's javascript engine is superior to Firefoxes. When I have to use IE I get annoyed, it's just not that good anymore, techies like well written software.
This is off topic, sorry. I recently worked in a networking job in a big institution. Most of my time was spent clearing computers with IE installed malware, or updating windows when the automatic update didn't work. This is why techies don't like that product, they don't like bad products, and they don't like cleaning up after bad products.
Anyway, I think you'll start seeing some interesting growth in non MS areas in the coming 2 years, forward looking companies are preparing for that. If you haven't looked at linux lately you might want to take another look, it's moving very fast, look for increasing growth in the corporate desktop market first, since those desktops tend to be more controlled, easier to switch to Linux.
how do they raise the finances to break the grass roots
They just did, that's what the IPO is for. However, it goes beyond that, IE has been delivered for years with the default MSN portal home page, default MSN search, but MSN search accounts for only about 15% or so of current searches. Google already broke the grass roots, the question is not how they do it, but how they keep doing it. Gmail has already attracted a significant 'hip thing' factor, something hotmail will be unable to reclaim. Microsoft does not have this 'hip' factor any more, now it's just the defacto default. Much like IBM was when Microsoft/Apple came along. These things change, nobody thought IBM would become just another player either.
I'm not a google fan, I see them as just another started out cool company quickly moving to something else, but as long as they keep the flexibility and freedom in their googleplex, they'll be able to attract better people than Microsoft.
I actually want MSN to do well, simply because monoculture in any industry is a bad thing, it's just a very bad idea for a single company to totally dominate your access to the web.
Google currently has some significant weaknesses, currently it's a waiting game to see if they can resolve them before the real MSN comes out, and if MSN will push at those weaknesses in their marketing:
sample commercial: frustrated user looking for website on new movie on google, turns to friend, asks how to find it, friend says, oh, google won't give you new websites, try MSN. Simple message, basic weakness in google currently.
Sorry to drift too far off topic, mods feel free to slice out parts you consider irrelevant.
|
|
cloudhaus
Joined: Nov 11, 2004
# Posts: 2
|
Posted: 11/15/2004 06:40 pm
Our debates seem to be America-centered...
Previous posts:
"The children of today are spending millions of hours playing computer games"
"Kids do what is cool. IE is not cool, Firefox is cool"
What do people think about long-term success outside the country? Google stated in its most recent SEC filing that their international business is growing at ~50% clip while their AdSense numbers are more volatile--at times up, at times down.
Do we have any int'l forum members who can talk about marketing campaigns outside US? What about weening non- net-savvy internationals onto certain brands? Developing countries that may have non-profit outreach projects will most likely subject those citizens to Windows and other Microsoft programs on donated computers. Example: my friend on Peace Corps service in Namibia wrote for and obtained a grant for a computer center. It's quite an effect for someone to utter the word "Microsoft" with their first experience with a computer.
Is international competition currently limited to search in different languages and opening R&D offices abroad? I think the future money-maker is outside the US border, and that may hold true for the Next Big Thing in search.
|
|
g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10286
|
Posted: 11/16/2004 07:56 am
China is the next big thing.
By the end of next year there will be more Chinese people on the Internet than all of the rest of the world put together (if I remember the quote right).
|
|
lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
|
Posted: 11/16/2004 09:35 am
I've had very good success, relatively speaking, by creating a bilingual spanish/english site, we do well in it for spanish searches in google, from google spain, mexico, some south american countries.
Of course maintaining a bilingual site is a pain, hard to coordinate translations etc, but there's less competition, less SEO types, working in the spanish sector I think, it's mostly focused on english/euro stuff.
|
|
page_zone
Joined: Nov 17, 2004
# Posts: 3
|
Posted: 11/17/2004 05:33 pm
This is going to be real interesting because if MSN delivers relevant results, google will be in big trouble. Also I think the SEO's were the downfall of google predecessors. Or more like the lack of ability to fend off unscrupulous SEO's. All this link trading BS I see out now is testament to the fact that google is under major attack by the SEO's. and the SEO's are winning. Although the results at google are still pretty relevant, its not like it used to be.
|
|
shehateme
Joined: Apr 21, 2004
# Posts: 153
|
Posted: 11/18/2004 12:51 am
Yahoo is doomed!
|
|
sofree
Joined: Jul 29, 2004
# Posts: 79
|
Posted: 11/18/2004 08:56 am
Yahoo is really over! The Slurp is far too slow at indexing new pages. When you view cache if the keywords is in the Title of the page the Cache view title is buggered, you'd think they'd sort that out.
Techies hate Microsoft, the ordinary person just doesn't care and use what's in front of them. At the moment that's Google (popularity of the toolbar), but with MSN toolbar loaded on people will use that.
The Search results are even better since it's been in beta, than the first preview. GO MSN!
|
|
sofree
Joined: Jul 29, 2004
# Posts: 79
|
Posted: 11/18/2004 08:57 am
MSN's Beta UK search has different results from the MSN.COM Beta results, which is good. Google.co.uk searches the worldwide index by default which is not good.
|
|
flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
|
Posted: 11/18/2004 05:54 pm
That explains why so many uk searches show up during keyword research.
|
|
lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
|
Posted: 11/18/2004 07:53 pm
google is under major attack by the SEO's. and the SEO's are winning
Lot's of money involved. The sandbox to me is a fairly blatant admission that the SEOs are beating the algo currently. If you even accept that is the primary cause of the sandbox, which is open to debate, but since the fact of its existence is fairly self evident, the cause isn't that important.
|
|
You are not permitted to post messages in this forum or topic, because of one or more of the following reasons:
- You have not yet logged in, or registered properly as a member
- You are a member, but no longer have posting rights.
- This is a private forum, for which you do not have permissions.
If you are a recent member, it's possible that you simply have not yet confirmed your account. Please
check your email for a message entitled 'JimWorld Forums: Confirm Your Account' and follow the instructions
contained within.
If you cannot find this message, click here to Re-Send it.
|
If you are still experiencing problem, please read the
Login Assistance
Article for some advice on what may be causing your login not to work properly.
|
Switch to Advanced Editor and ...
Create a New Topic
or Reply to this Thread
|
|
