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Torrent search engine 4sale! (In: I Want to Sell My Website)
Does word press coding effects in search engines?? (In: Coding & Databases - PHP, ASP, Perl, etc.)
Are small sellers penalized by search engines? (In: General Search Engine Optimization)
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jvanv8
Joined: Oct 17, 2003
# Posts: 8
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 05:36
To test Google's new and improved algorithm, I decided to do a few searches to see the #1 search engine giant in action. As always, I surf the web in the shoes of the user, not a developer, programmer, computer person, or seo guy. Actaully when I surf and test I try to act like my technologically challanged mother.
Searches off the top of my head...
1st Search Term = "Web Developer"
Figuring that there are a zillion out there, the first 10 must be some sure-fire hot-shot developers!
#2 Ranking - "The Online Edition of the STARS Magazine"
Wow! This must be where all the web developer superSTARS are listed... lets go! [Opens Page] - Hmmm... its hard to get a grasp on it but it appears to be a magazine devoted to the cultural and economic woes of Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Dubai and other areas in the region. I looked around for web developers but once I discovered that "Iraq's warfare fuels the global trade in looted antiquities" I forgot all about that stupid web development stuff... "hey, this is great! Where can I sign up for the peace corps?"
Keyword Notes: No cases of "web" or "developer" ANYWHERE!
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2nd Search Term - "Web Development"
Not to give up too easily, I plug in "Web Development" instead. Lets see... #2 Ranking is ""The Online Edition of the STARS..."
Errrr
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3rd Search Term - I figured I could save all the problems that I learned the Middle East was having by buying them peace and happiness. Naturally, I search for "Shopping Mall"
#8 "Green Earth"
What better place to by peace and other worldly goods for the war-torn regions of the world! [Opens Page] - Hmmm.. ok only 28 words on the page... There are no instances of "shopping" or "mall" in the source code. But hey look! They have a link stating "Wild Ferret check it out." Who cares about shopping when you can check out wild ferrets! [Opens Farret Site] - Intro text states
"Welcome To WildFerret.Com. This Site has a split personality.
Half is devoted to Ferrets
Half is devoted to Martial Arts. Currently Aikido"
- Awww cool I love Aikido, thats really what I was looking for all along.
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Keyword #4: "Martial Arts"
I want to learn more about this stuff, and maybe some farrets too.
Search Result #16 - Redirected to a message that the page is down. But the owner leaves us a plain text message saying that "New location for Danny Abramovitch's martial arts pages ... As soon as I find a reasonable location, I will transfer the content and list the URL here. 4/17/02"
I know its been over a year and a half, but I am pretty certain, and apparently so is Google, that the site will be kung foo fighting any day now.
Search Result #18 - Hey! Its the same page we got redirected to before!
Search Result #15 - "Index of /~viamedia"
Hmm... directory structure with 2 files, both of which list site and traffic logs. Strangly, the wine drinking sissys of Italy represented 1.85% of traffic while the Karate Chop land of Japan only represented 1.26%. Fascinating.
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Search Term #5
All this searching is making me hungry, how about "Japanese Food"!
With over 3,200,000 Japanese Food sites, I'm sure to get some excellent dining or take out with result #16
Search Result #16 - "This is a website that has been designed especially for kids with ... "
With what? I want to know [Opens Page] - "This is a website that has been designed especially for kids with information about the country of Japan."
No text in source code for "Food". 2 instances of "Japanese Music" though.
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Search Term #6 - You know, searching the internet is getting harder these days, maybe there's some "Computer Software" that can help.
13,600,000 Results
#3 Virtex C3ommunicator - Online Presentations Conferences Seminars - is Virtex becoming the next Microsoft? [Opens Page] No occurances of "Software". HOWEVER there IS one mention of the word "Computer". Its in their slogan - "CompInfo - the Computer Information Center".
I think I will use the Contact Us page to see if they have any good utilities for Windows XP just incase they forgot to mention it on the site.
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[Big Sigh] Well that raps up a great internet surf session. Probably unrelated but I think I am coming down with vertigo. Maybe I'll do a Google Search to learn more about it. Hey look, another Ferret site!
- John
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ruperto
Joined: Nov 18, 2003
# Posts: 71
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 06:00
That's really funny. 
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001
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
# Posts: 64
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 06:15
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that's the BEST post I've read on here in a week!
BTW, I couldn't agree with you more!
Lee
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rocket_rob
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 156
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 12:00
I searched "web development" since that was the first example and the most off topic of all. The online edition of the Stars magazine gets this ranking ...uh....HOW? Since the only place "web development" appears is in links pointing to the page it kind of blows the theory that Google has discounted spam, anchor text "stuffing", etc. It appears to me you can get boatloads of traffic by getting 1000+ links using keywords that have absolutely no relevance to your site.
Way to go Google ....... nice job.
The only nice thing about this fiasco is I am noticing more traffic from other search engines, in particular AltaVista. Maybe a coincidence or maybe a step in the right direction. Seems Google forgot that you can get search engine results at hundreds of places, but people will go where the results are good. All the talk about their holy "algorithm" is just a joke anymore. Spam and off topic results are everywhere.
Way to go Google....nice job.
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loz
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 16:40
It's funny until it happens to yourself.
My site has been deeply affected by all this. If these changes are permanent then we will have to react and try to figure out a different strategy that relies less on optimisation, which is going to be difficult because of the interface we have designed.
What really bothers me is that a site that is listed at #4 not even about a related product rather than the product the user did the search for. It's like someone who searches for a car gets a site about motorbikes.
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gmac17
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 17:08
or how about a search for "hockey sticks"....
#7 is: Gym slips and hockey sticks: Philip Larkin's schoolgirl stories
"Last year details emerged of two previously unseen erotic novellas written by Philip Larkin...."
Talk about relevent!
Additionally, 4 of the top 10 sites are about field hockey sticks, most likely because those pages aren't optimized for hockey terms and look less optimized to google....
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14513
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 17:23
loz, nothing is permanent in search engine world If you have made your site the best it can be for your visitors that's the best you can do! It will stand the test of time through algo changes that come and go.
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loz
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 17:50
excell, and then there is the whole basket and egg argument and the keepin 'em all in one logic 
having said that, relevancy seems to be suffering from this ordeal, which isn't good for anyone.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14513
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 17:57
the ordeal may be temporary and if it isn't it's bye bye to google for me and moving on to where I can work better
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SEOK
Joined: Jul 24, 2002
# Posts: 288
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 20:06
I kind of like the new results! It's really eclectic... You can search for just about anything and find something you didn't even know you wanted to look for. I have really expanded my opinion as to what is relevant. I think google appreciates surfers like me, as I just roll with the waves and click any link they bring up!
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10465
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 20:48
I'm still waiting for any of my sites to move even one position in listings.
I got some extra listed backlinks show up, and a PR boost a couple of days ago: one site 4 to 5, another 5 to 6, another stayed at 6, the last from 6 to 7. Can't see any other changes.
However for some other one-word searches, especially commercial stuff, things don't look good. I think they are trying to train people to be more specific with their searches and to use three or more words.
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Keensurfer
Joined: Nov 05, 1999
# Posts: 885
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 21:01
Training people to use 3 or 4 keyword searches is going to be like getting America to sit down and eat a home cooked family meal. For the masses---it aint gonna happen. Americans want it fast...quick ...and now. There's a few fast food chains that figured that out. We order millions of meals now from our car windows with words like..."#1 with a coke"...as opposed to saying "2 Cheeseburgers with a regular fries and a medium coke." I think part of Googles success is that lazy searchers could get amazingly targeted results. When looking for a product, I don't want Google to send me to bizrate or mysimon...I can go there myself in fewer steps. Google won't train users to do anything. Users want to do the least to get the most. That was the Google of yesterday.
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001
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
# Posts: 64
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 21:49
Keensurfer,
You hit it on the head...if this is indeed Google's intention. The very nature of a search engine is (or should be) for people to enter a phrase (OR A WORD!) to find relevant results, NOT neccessarily TARGETED results! You reading this Google??
If a searcher wants to be more targeted, he/she will enter a multiple word phrase or go to a web directory.
Lee
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St0n3y
Joined: May 01, 2002
# Posts: 1620
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 22:58
adapt, adapt, adapt... that is now the keyword in play. Searchers will adapt by going where they can get relevant results and SEOs will adapt by figuring out how to get top rankings on those other search engines. Google will adapt by going public and looking ONLY at the income statements, and site owners will adapt by ditching the SEOs that don't adapt quick enough.
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001
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
# Posts: 64
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 23:02
Damn straight!
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jbgilbert
Joined: Sep 16, 2002
# Posts: 321
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Posted: 2003-Nov-25 23:28
Funny... Funny... and there are millions more funny results just like them. Shameful experimentation by Google on real time data results with what appears to be very little (if any) testing!
Is Mr. Brin on permanent vacation of something? Wasn't he thinking of taking Google public?
If so, who the heck has he left in control of the "current" number one search engine in the world?
I have many smaller clients with QUALITY sites that have been devastated by Google's recent experimentation. All I keep hearing is "be patient, it's just a dance and it will end". I wonder if Yahoo and AOL find a 3 week dance a reasonable explanation for the search results they are now stuck with.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14513
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Posted: 2003-Nov-26 03:41
How is this one for relevancy.. LOL
Specific phrase search with quotes on:
"sydney B&B"
#11
Masterpieces of non-standard piano repertoire
... G = Gebethner & Wolff; R = Roszavolgyi; A = Allan's music (Sydney); B&B = Bote and
Bock; B&H = Breitkopf and Hartel; N = Norsk Musik Verlag; I = Idzikowski. ...
Yup :D - google has got me figured, just knows I don't really want to find a place to stay but that I really want MUSIC!!
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jvanv8
Joined: Oct 17, 2003
# Posts: 8
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Posted: 2003-Nov-26 04:56
At least that page had the words Sydney and B&B in the content!
I searched for "Google": 36,900,000 matches!!
Now seriously, the Google guys must fix the first 20 rankings just to make themselves look good. But sure enough, #25 "access.adobe.com" has no mention of Google. So how does this site beat out 36,899,975 websites??
Simple. They just manipulated the new algorithm. Adobe had the forsight that this day would come when the launched GoLive... If they had placed a spammy title like "Google Indexing of PDF's" the new filter will quickly find the keyword "Google" in the title (a hotbed area for spam artists) and the following code in the new algorithm is executed:
if(%keyword% == title){
int new_ranking = relavency_ranking + rand(total_matches);
}
Pushed down to the bottom, bummer.
BUT Adobe fooled the filter like other posts have stated you can do, by mixing the keywords around...
GoLive... first_2_letters + reverse(first_2_letters) + (rest_of_letters-2) + last_letter
= GO + OG + L + E = GOOGLE!!!
So if searching for Google yeilds GoLive content, all you have to do is reverse engineer the algorithm for your desired keyword.
For example, if I'm selling "hockey sticks" why not put some rich text such as "hoohcky sttscs" in your page. The visitors will come pouring in.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14513
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Posted: 2003-Nov-26 05:50
LOL
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nickn0783
Joined: Mar 26, 2002
# Posts: 1371
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Posted: 2003-Nov-26 14:36
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
jvanv8 gr8 first post :D
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