Cheery Ragdoll
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 79
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Posted: 2004-Mar-18 01:11
Just a quick question, if I am being penalized for over optimization and change my site so that I am not penalized for over optimization, how long does it take Google to remove the penalty? Do they remove the penalty? what do I need to do to get the penalty removed, reduce the amount of optimization, or am I penalized forever?
Cheers 
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Cheery Ragdoll
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 79
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Posted: 2004-Mar-18 03:20
Don't worry, I found the answer in a different thread:
"You're probably dealing with an OOP penalty. I've had this happen to a few sites, and removing the offending optimization technique usually gets the site back in the SERPs. "
Cheers
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Cheery Ragdoll
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 79
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Posted: 2004-Mar-18 03:25
Actually, I do have another question. I have noticed that Google is spidering my site everyday and if I cahnge my content on say Monday, the changes are reflected in Google on Tuesday. Does this also mean that it will affect my ranking immediately, or do i have to wait for Google to do its thing at the end of the month to have any affect as to how it ranks my site?
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Logan
Joined: Aug 14, 2002
# Posts: 3749
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Posted: 2004-Mar-18 14:00
Excellent posts to yourself Cheery 
I believe google is working towards that your pagerank and on page optimization changes will be reflected immediately when updates of the cache are made ... but based on my experiences they are not there yet ... I usually give it some time (~30+ days).
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Cheery Ragdoll
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 79
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 03:39
LOL, yeah it was a good post wasn't it Logan. heheheheh.
But yeah I agree with it taking Google 30+ days to have the cached changes reflected in the SERPs, but I sure do look forward to when it is reflected immediately!
Cheers
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zendesigner
Joined: Feb 28, 2004
# Posts: 22
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 10:13
Hy ,
Can somebody explain what an OOP penalty is ??
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bmurphy
Joined: Feb 12, 2004
# Posts: 65
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 17:03
Over Optimized Page?
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dethfire
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 8
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 18:01
i've had a ton of sites drop like flies, how do you exactly find what is making google mad and fixing it? I always think my sites are built naturally
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7042
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 18:26
how do you exactly find what is making google mad and fixing it?
Trial and error, I guess. You need to start at the top of the page and start removing one element at a time until the page gets back in the rankings.
If you have done anything that Google could possibly think that you are doing to get better search engine rankings then I would start with those elements first.
One common thing is typically having a particularly high keyword density. Choose one keyword and analyze all of the top 10 results for that keyword to see what the keyword density of those pages are. If your page has a higher keyword density then that might be the problem. Generally speaking, the keyword density of your page should be about what the rest of the SERPs are.
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zorgi
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 92
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 18:49
I have been penalized in the same way. Some of the keywords are still working because I didn’t overuse them but some keywords are not working because I used them too many times. It’s easy to work out how many of “not working” keywords I have to take off. Just keep as many of “currently not working keywords” as there is working once.
Bhartzer said:
You need to start at the top of the page and start removing one element at a time until the page gets back in the rankings.
If you have done anything that Google could possibly think that you are doing to get better search engine rankings then I would start with those elements first.
Question.
Does that mean that I can not take off now all unwanted keywords at once but have to do it in stages one by one over period of time? That would really be patience training.
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7042
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 19:03
Does that mean that I can not take off now all unwanted keywords at once but have to do it in stages one by one over period of time? That would really be patience training.
No, not at all. Concentrate on writing good copy for your website visitors, not the search engines. If the keywords should be there because they accurately describe your business, then I would keep them there.
When I was talking about removing elements I was talking more about element of the page that were used for search engine ranking purposes. For example, if you wrote your title tag a certain way and included keywords just for ranking purposes, then you might want to take a look again at your title tag. The same with your meta tags, alt tags, comment tags, page navigation (links), and other elements of your page that might be over-optimized. That's really what the OOP is all about, not necessarily keywords that you use in the copy of your text on the page.
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zorgi
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 92
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 19:28
I must admit I included same word to my content (text on the page) many times in hope it would make ranking. It worked fine until few days ago when I lost ranking on that same word. Is that OOP?
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7042
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 19:42
I included same word to my content (text on the page) many times in hope it would make ranking...Is that OOP?
Yes.
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zorgi
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 92
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 20:08
Thanx bhartzer.
I know what to do now.
I understand what you mean with:” Concentrate on writing good copy for your website visitors, not the search engines. If the keywords should be there because they accurately describe your business, then I would keep them there.”
But can not help it but to think that spider is just another program. Since spider is just another program it must have some kind of mathematical decision making on OOP. I am guessing here but it must be keyword percentage of total text. Am I completely wrong or is there some true in my speculation?
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7042
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 20:38
It could be 'keyword percentage of total text', but without fully analyzing your site there's no may for me to guess.
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cbp
Joined: Dec 25, 2003
# Posts: 181
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Posted: 2004-Mar-19 22:55
There is no over optimization penalty:
From GG:
"Has Google applied some sort of OOP or filter to the algorithm since the Florida update or was the drastic change in SERPs purely the result of new ranking criteria?"
It's the second one. People post around here about filters, blocking, penalties, etc. etc. A far better explanation is "things which used to work before don't receive the same amount of credit now." It's natural for people who are way out there with their linking strategies or their page-building strategies to think of a drop as an over-optimization penalty, but it's more realistic to conclude that Google is weighting criteria differently so that over-optimized sites just aren't doing as well now.
http://www.markcarey.com/googleguy-says/archives/discuss-denial-of-google-over-optimization-penalty.html
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vg5518
Joined: May 28, 2002
# Posts: 218
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Posted: 2004-Mar-20 00:24
But, if it's just a matter of Google weighting criteria differently, then it seems to me that deoptimizing would not get your ranking back, right?
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zorgi
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 92
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Posted: 2004-Mar-20 00:29
“Google is weighting criteria differently so over-optimized sites just aren't doing as well now.”
What is meaning of this quotation but that over-optimized sites are being penalized??
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14513
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Posted: 2004-Mar-20 15:16
Just remove your business name and all mention of your products and services - then you should be right.
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ferret77
Joined: May 31, 2002
# Posts: 354
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Posted: 2004-Mar-20 15:49
I am going to go out on a limb and say there is no over-optimization penalty
I had six sites get knock in the florida update and now all 6 are back, and it sure wasn't de-optimizing them that got them back
In my opionion the algo change or whatever hit in 2+ waves the first wave florida affected a lot of bigger terms ie website design, vacation rentals, gambling , real estate
the second was couple months ago hit a bunch of little terms , I lost 3 or 4 sites in that too , but since those terms where so light weight, the people who own the sites never paid for optimization so they sink or swin on there own.
I think the over -op penalty is a myth the only way to get your sites back is to optimize more
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