Printer Friendly Version
Email this thread to a friend
|
How to get a better ROI with pay per click adverti (In: Pay Per Click - Google/Yahoo & Others)
Featured Web Site Template |
|
Reflects user activity within the last 5 minutes
|
|
| Member |
Message |
thejenn
Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
|
Posted: 2003-Jun-10 19:15
Curious what everyone uses for tracking their ROI.
Are you using a custom solution? Perhaps a database or spreadsheet program you've setup? Do you use a pre-packaged solution? Do you use one program for all ROI, or different programs for each type of marketing.
For example, ClickTracks has put a new feature in place for tracking ROI on Google AdWords campaigns. Other folks use third-party software for tracking ROI on Overture campaigns.
Then you have to figure in ROI on direct mail, trade shows, email marketing campaigns, etc...
So how do you track ROI, or do you track it at all?
|
 |
JonWittwer
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 32
|
Posted: 2003-Jun-11 05:23
I am using ListMailPro for my Opt-in mail lists. Many of the autoresponder software packages implement similar features (but I don't use the others, so I can't speak for them).
This program allows you to include special links inside of your emails that increment a counter within the software when a person clicks on that link. For example, if I have 260 subscribers and 100 of them click on an affiliate link inside my newsletter, I'll know (AND I'll know WHO did). That is not direct ROI, but it is a step in the right direction I think.
Using javascript and redirection, you can also track nearly any link you put in an E-book, forum posting, etc.
As for direct ROI, I haven't actually invested any $, but time is sure an issue (and one that is much harder to quantify). Let's say I spent an hour preparing a good forum post (on a forum that allowed signature links) and my 'hour' is worth $20 to me. How do I determine if that post was worth anything?
Am I making direct sales from that post?
Am I making any business contacts through my efforts?
Maybe I get $20 worth of charitable satisfaction.
Am I making a better name for myself?
...
I digressed a bit from the email link tracking point, but my main point is that there is more to ROI than simply dollar in vs. dollar out.
I sure would be interested in knowing about some of the tools out there for tracking marketing efforts - particularly those that consolidate the information in a central location (like a spreadsheet).
Jon
|
|
shorebreak
Joined: Nov 09, 2000
# Posts: 167
|
Posted: 2003-Jul-10 20:54
I came across a company called Omniture while at eTail 2003, an online retail conference in Palm Springs earlier this year. They had, IMO, the best web analytics package of any of the vendors out there - mainly because of the way they superimpose analytics data on top of your website.
Their product is very good at telling you:
-Where people are coming from
-Where they go on your site
-Where people drop off
-Conversion rates by keyword
|
|
thejenn
Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
|
Posted: 2003-Jul-10 22:12
Interesting, I've never heard of that program before, but it sounds like they have very similar offerings to ClickTracks, especially the bit about showing click paths as a visual representation on actual web pages. I'll have to take a look at it...
Any one else out there used it and familiar with its features?
|
|
shorebreak
Joined: Nov 09, 2000
# Posts: 167
|
Posted: 2003-Jul-30 00:51
TheJenn - did you ever look at Omniture? I'm interested to get your thoughts on it if you have.
I've been spending a lot of time lately looking at all the SEM and web analytics tools out there. I must say there are dozens and dozens and dozens of them, and it seems like the majority of SEM/analytics tools vendors are doing very well these days. I can't help but think that alot of the human work done by SEM consultants will be done by software in the next few years.
Don't get me wrong - there'll always be a place for copy creation and landing page magic - but all of the following will eventually be done by tools:
-Keyword brainstorming
-PPC buys
-Directory submission
-traffic analysis
-landing page iteration (automated A/B testing to infinity)
I know that's a controversial statement to make on S.E.F., but it seems clear to me that the tools are catching up to the humans, and the humans will at some point have to find another way to make a buck.
|
|
thejenn
Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
|
Posted: 2003-Sep-05 19:14
I actually didnt' get a chance to look at it, I may have ot put it on my list and see if I can't get a copy to review for About.
As for the tools, I think to some extent you are right, but to some extent, you are wrong. 
For example:
Keyword brainstorming. It's been enhanced by tools like WordTracker, AdWords Suggestion tool, Overture, etc... They help you figure out the number of searches, run some comparison on how heavy the competition is, etc... But...the brains to actually do the searching, well to some extent, you need a human being behind it. Sure, there are automated programs that can say "this word often is the same as this word" that will do a series of searches for you, but you need the human touch to make those judgement calls. Plus, once the list is done, you need a human to make the decision on which ones to target.
PPC Buys: Again, you can handle your buying and your bid management with tools, which is awesome, but the actual decision on which ones to buy, where to set your bid amounts (or at least set your range) and what copy to use for your ads will always need to be done by a human for the best results.
Directory Submission: This one I'll have to disagree with. Directories are setup to detect automated submissions and most of them are simply not accepted. Plus, you'll need a human being to select the category and write the title and description, or you'll end up sending in junk that either takes forever to get reviewed and edited, or gets junked for being spam. As an editor with many of the volunteer directories, I can say without a doubt that humans need to be involved in this process.
Traffic Analysis: Sure, a lot of this is now done by tools. Heck, I swear by ClickTracks, I think it's one of the greatest things to hit SEO and ROI tracking. But...all that data, all those charts and information...they don't mean anything unless you know what to do with them. So again, an automated tool is simply giving the SEO more time to do more work, not replacing them. I never imagined that I could do the tracking and strategy for my client's sites that I do now...it simply would have taken too much time to make it worthwhile.
Landing page iteration: Not sure what you mean by this...unless you mean checking for keyword density and automatically adjusting things...in which case i'll disagree. It takes a human being to write copy and headlines that human being's understand.
I guess what it boils down to is this...tools are coming out all the time that make our jobs easier and that help us be more productive...but those tools are only as good as the SEO/SEMs who use them. 
|
|
88sahara
Joined: Feb 17, 2000
# Posts: 617
|
Posted: 2003-Sep-11 16:31
I have used about 7 different tracking systems, and recently got a tour of omniture, WOW!!!!
You can set alerts that when your conversion rate ( or any stat ) dips below 5% (or any threshold you wished) to send you an e-mail.
This is killer, their path tracking was 100x better than anything I've used, usually popular path data is not very useful because there are SOOOO many paths people can take to traverse your site.
Unfortunately their cost is atronomical, so I'll continue to use NetTracker, which is a decent solution, but using log files to analyze data is not the way to go, client side tagging technology has it beat by a mile.
|
|
dpeddle
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 269
|
Posted: 2003-Nov-10 20:52
I recently came across a site called conversionlogic . It seems like an afordable option..but perhaps a little limited. I am debating on what to use. I am considering setting up a custom database solution based on ip. for overture as an example.... the landing page would be overture.php which would be located in a campaign directory...the ip would then be logged into the mysql database.... if the visitor fills our the inquiry form... their ip would then be logged into the databse from the response page as well.
I dunno.... i think i am in one of those states where i am thinking too much...to the point where i am confusing myself and getting too complicated...... ahhhhh time for another java!
Any ideas?
|
|
bbl
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 42
|
Posted: 2004-Jan-20 21:07
thejenn...you use ClickTracks correct? If so, are you using Pro or ISP?
I would like a program that would allow me to give access to individual users in real time, as opposed to sending them reports. You can do that with ISP but its quite a bit more than Pro....do you have any feedback for me on this?
Anyone heard of Urchin www.urchin.com?
|
|
88sahara
Joined: Feb 17, 2000
# Posts: 617
|
Posted: 2004-Feb-02 15:57
I've sat through a personal one-on-one demo of omniture...of the 20+ analysis programs I have used, this one is by far superior, on so many levels. If superimposing a site is the main attractive option, then go with clicktracks because omniture is not cheap by any means, the package I looked at was close to 21,000 a year. Pretty expensive, but it was way ahead of what was out there.
I use NetTracker, and I like it, but all path analysis is weak, omniture's path analysis killed everything out there, the new version of NetTracker should fix some of the path analysis issues.
|
|
shorebreak
Joined: Nov 09, 2000
# Posts: 167
|
Posted: 2004-Feb-03 02:58
88sahara,
That's very interesting to hear someone else have good things to say about Omniture. The web analytics space is very hard to keep track of, so would you mind saying what business advantage a large retail website would have over its competitors by using Omniture? For me that's the easiest way to translate cool features into an understanding of who's better.
Thanks in advance for anything you can provide.
|
|
kodak
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 39
|
Posted: 2004-Feb-03 22:20
Urchin is a better tool than Omniture for a fraction of the price. Plus you gotta like the fact that Urchin is bidding on Omniture's name in AdWords.
|
|
shorebreak
Joined: Nov 09, 2000
# Posts: 167
|
Posted: 2004-Feb-04 00:16
Kodak, while I don't have my ear to the ground on this particular topic as much as I do on other SEM topics, I've yet to hear of a top 50 paid search spender who's using Urchin. Omniture, on the other hand, is being used by no fewer than 10-15 of the top 100 paid search advertisers.
Again, I'm not asking people about urchin, but in my travels I've yet to see someone sizeable who's using it. Th big online advertisers are usually using Omniture, Coremetrics, WebTrends, AtlasDMT, SiteAdvance or an internally-developed solution in the case of the top five.
|
|
advisor
Joined: Apr 23, 2004
# Posts: 1
|
Posted: 2004-Apr-24 11:01
Hi Guys
I work for a e-commerce company which advertises on most of the paid Search Engines(Overture, Google Adwords, FindWhat, LycosInsite, LookSmart etc) and Comparison Shopping Sites like (BizRate, Dealtime and Yahoo! Shopping). We manage more than
2500 unique keywords in various Paid SEs. We use a in-house database program to track the ROI of a single keyword or group of keywords. A keyword incuring most of the cost (in a group of keywords) is tracked seperately. We use a hierarchical method to track the ROI for every product/keyword/group of keywords. This has helped us to optimize our online advertisement to a great extent. Also our paid advertisement helps us in Search Engine Optimazation as we can easily track the keywords.
|
|
RenKen
Joined: Apr 01, 1999
# Posts: 560
|
Posted: 2005-Oct-02 02:01
I use Omniture. We just got it a few months ago. There are ups and downs to this program. It is a fantastic tracking tool. Like others have said, it can track just about anything your visitors are doing, from click paths to buying habits to what they ate for breakfast this morning.
The problems with it are:
1. It's extremely complicated and time consumming to install and get working correctly.
2. You need to dedicate one person in your company to use the program and to learn all its ins and outs (I happen to be that person in my company.) That person will need to spend about a month simply installing and learning how to use the program.
3. It's not simply learning how to use the program itself, it's learning about KPI (Key Performance Indicators) and teaching everyone else in the company what that is and how they can get the most of out of the program. When you spend the money you do on a program of this magnitude, you need to learn how best to use it, otherwise, it's a waste of money.
It's just not for the faint of heart. You need to dedicate some serious resources to it in order to make it worth it.
Otherwise, go for Urchin.
Webtrends and HBX (Webside Story) are other options. They are much easier to install, although there will still be a learning curve.
The other big issue with Omniture currently is their lack of ability to track people that are blocking cookies. Now the Webtrends folks swear that it's about 30% of people are blocking cookies and they swear they are the only tracking software that can track people that block cookies. Omniture swears it's only about 3% of people are blocking cookies.
|
|
bobcowp
Joined: Oct 05, 2005
# Posts: 2
|
Posted: 2005-Oct-05 16:35
Hey, just found this thread, thought I should recommend 'Lynchpin' to anyone looking for an affordable package that pretty much does the whole business!
I'm in the marketing department of a toy company, we recently launched our site and had these guys recommended to us by our SEO company. For like £400/month we're getting analysis on all our online marketing channels (natural search, PPC, banner, email)and we're gonna be able register our affiliates too as soon as I get the tag sorted out! Our online visits and revenue come up in real time and its really satisfying to see the pennies rolling in!
Major bonus for our department is that the subscription DOESN'T increase with hits - flat rate irrespective of our marketing succes, which is nice for us, and our budget!
[link] if you're interested - have this one on me!
|
|
sandsnowgeek
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
# Posts: 1
|
Posted: 2005-Nov-22 19:18
Advisor,
I do in-house SEM for an e-commerce company too and with our 5000 and still growing products I think that I will be in your situation in the future.
Quote: We use a in-house database program to track the ROI of a single keyword or group of keywords. A keyword incuring most of the cost (in a group of keywords) is tracked seperately. We use a hierarchical method to track the ROI for every product/keyword/group of keywords.
So Im thinking you guys built it yourselves? We are only able to track per word on each engine using different refferal tracks on the campaigns... how do you combine the keywords on search and comparison sites?
To everyone,
Right now we are looking to purchase an analysis tool. REn Ken thanks for your inputs about omniture they are one of the top 2 we are looking into. How long would you say was your learning curve? When you say that you are dedicated to omniture.. does that mean you just learn about it... you don't do the SEO anymore or can you learn while doing it?
Anyone have experience with websidestory? I saw demos for both products and they both seem similar.. but.. omniture has more customization it seems. I do know someone using websidestory and he told me it was a pain to get up and running...
|
|
visitor
Staff
Joined: Sep 06, 2001
# Posts: 620
|
Posted: 2005-Nov-22 21:04
Sandsnowgeek,
I am using HBX from WebSideStory, and we will explore their new Bid tool.
As for HBX...I find it comprehensive and useful. 'Drilldown' feature has multiple point-of-entry for many stats. One could argue this can be good and/or bad, but as for me, I like having the option for multiple point-of-entry.
We have wonderful account team from WebSideStory, so my experience with WebSideStory has been beyond and above satisfactory. I used WebTrends before, and I prefer HBX over WebTrends.
Just my most humble Personal opinion
|
|
flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
|
Posted: 2005-Dec-13 08:36
As Shorebreak says, "The big online advertisers are usually using Omniture, Coremetrics, WebTrends, AtlasDMT, SiteAdvance or an internally-developed solution in the case of the top five."
Which analytics program you use depends a lot on the size of your online business. The above programs are used by huge online companies like HP, Fortune 500 companies with huge and busy Web sites, and what are commonly referred to as Enterprise customers.
I just met a Representative of Omniture and although they have a marketing team for "smaller" companies their target audience is Web sites with 1 million plus page views a month.
ClickTracks, IndexTools or Urchin are more likely choices for most businesses. Google is now offering free Urchin analytics with their Adwords program.
As for tools replacing people, that isn't likely at least in our lifetimes. The best tools are only as effective as the people who manage them and intuitive logic is still far more useful than rules based management.
|
|
jeetkundo
Joined: Dec 19, 2005
# Posts: 5
|
Posted: 2005-Dec-20 07:13
i found a great site that offer's free ad tracking. It's actually really good. they also give away alot of free software like a blog n ping software just for signing up.
Link Removed
Just thought that may help some people.
[ Message was edited by: visitor 12/20/2005 09:11 am ]
[ Message was edited by: visitor 12/20/2005 09:17 am ... Reason: Please go to next page to read why the link was removed. Thank you. ]
[ Message was edited by: visitor 12/20/2005 09:18 am ]
|
|
You are not permitted to post messages in this forum or topic, because of one or more of the following reasons:
- You have not yet logged in, or registered properly as a member
- You are a member, but no longer have posting rights.
- This is a private forum, for which you do not have permissions.
If you are a recent member, it's possible that you simply have not yet confirmed your account. Please
check your email for a message entitled 'JimWorld Forums: Confirm Your Account' and follow the instructions
contained within.
If you cannot find this message, click here to Re-Send it.
|
If you are still experiencing problem, please read the
Login Assistance
Article for some advice on what may be causing your login not to work properly.
|
Switch to Advanced Editor and ...
Create a New Topic
or Reply to this Thread
|
|
Inbox
