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jcokos
Staff
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 171
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Posted: 2003-Sep-29 19:35
Repost article from Gazette Issue #205 ... your thoughts ?
Standards schmandards. Who needs 'em? Apparently, we all do. There are standards for everything nowadays. Some are etched in stone, such as XML, XSLT, and RSS, which are solidly backed, supported, and accepted. Some are everlasting "proposals" (see: w3.org), where compliance is recommended, but optional. Some are simply expected, for example, advertisers expect to have their banners shown "above the fold," and users expect Web site navigation to be on the left and clear. Where do we stand in 2003 with all of this, and more importantly, is it a good thing or a bad thing? Does conforming to a rigid standard make your Web site run any faster or better? Does conforming to expected standards really translate into better click-through rates for advertisers and more sales for you? Or, are we all turning our Web sites into bubble cars, differentiated only by our domain names and colors?
If you asked me that question two months ago, I would most certainly have fired back quickly, stating confidently that we're all a bunch of mindless drones, conforming to "standards," and eliminating our creativity. Good Web sites essentially all look the same some have better graphics than others, but all follow a similar "mold:" logo top left, banner top center, navigation on the left side, content in the middle. Boooooorrrrriiiiiinnnnngggg. I would have called on everyone to add some identity, something unique, something "you" to your Web sites. The Internet should be exciting, not routine.
Asking myself that same question today reveals a different answer. I've always been a proponent of conforming to coding standards (HTML, XHTML, XML) as well as programming standards for PHP and Perl, but only recently have I come on board to believe that the expected standards placed upon us by our Web site visitors have merit too. Having something as commonplace as a discussion forum, but making it work differently than people are used to (how they "expect" it to be) might be cool and fun, but it doesn't inspire activity. Having a Web site that is kick-butt cool with DHTML effects and alternate navigation might be fun to code, but it's not going to translate into sales, and it's more likely to translate into a frustrated buyer a buyer that just might buy from someone else. So, while I'm not yet 100% on board with the cookie-cutter mentality, I am coming around.
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joannac
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 267
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Posted: 2003-Sep-30 06:27
As per newsletter this really perked my attention:
I have been on board since Jim started this forum long ago
in the beginning of time.
As I was just starting out I took his ideas,hints,and tips, to promote as you say above part of myself into the website.
Optimzing it and fine tuning it but staying with plain html format.
It has remained the same with excellant rankings and same repeat vistors over the years time after time. Still love to come and visit.
I have thought and played with reformating it to flash, swish, dhtml etc etc.
But always something held me back. For I have watched competitors sleeking up their sites like a bunch of new look alike cars on a car lot. Yet complainging about response and visitors !!
With all my surfing it bores me to tears to see the same type of pages. It has become so awful I never know where I really am. I am personally out of there.
When I find an old site remaining the same, with easy navitgation just doing some renovations here and there and a new paint job,or redocorating I feel like I am home.
So much glitz now adays. Gone are the mom and pop stores.
Like you said ecommerce,optimization that half of the surfers, please consider age factor, are now older and learning still computers, that want to be able to find their way around with the mouse.
If I see one more Templete I think I will be sick.
They are all the same as you said, just different colors.
Flash loading screen entrance. Please Oh Please let me out fast~~~~Do not make me watch this.
So in short after being successful with my customers since 1997 and still in top rankings.
As Jim says if it works do not touch it. I leave it alone.
And people are always so grateful to find the spot is still there. When they see the same page they know where they are.
Some things like wine, home, good food, and just knowing you are and the product you have is great is enough.
Just my thoughts.
And a big wonderful thank you to Jim and his staff for being on top of things all the time and keeping it simplistic for us all.
JoAnna
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bnichols
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 2
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Posted: 2003-Sep-30 22:30
I heard someone say once "the good thing about standards is there are so many of them to choose from".
While people are banging on about w3.org standards, we tend to forget that 94% of the world are using IE. So why should we develop boring websites for everybody just to get a couple of extra percent?
It is an unfortunate fact of life that MS have the lion's share of the market and with that you can set the standards despite what anybody else says.
As for other coding standards, this is a market where standards will try to find their own level - anyone remember betamax?. The problem is the technology is moving so fast that the time it takes a standard to get established is far too long, because the march of technology has made it obsolete in a shorter time. Will we ever get scaleable standards??
Somehow that reminds of IP v6.....
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energy8763
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 2
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 00:45
With web site design, if you separate creativity from certain standards, what have you got? You've got a monitor with an unspecified amount of real estate upon which you can be creative. Any other artist chooses their canvas, but the web designer is stuck with whatever is most popular.
In this case, having a standard monitor size and resolution would be helpful, not limiting. Having a specific colour depth would be helpful, not limiting. Having a known and varied list of fonts would be helpful, not limiting.
Standards form a platform, or foundation for creativity, they do not in any way stiffle or limit the imagination.
As far as being rebellious and going against the standard design layout, just to be different (which has nothing to do with being creative) you could ask yourself if you like having your sandwich meat and mayo on top of two slices of bread, or does the standard work better for you? Isn't the creativity in the sandwich?
Perhaps when you write a book you'll want the table of contents at the back of the book. You could, of course, stick it smack in the middle of the book, but is any of this about being creative? Really, isn't the creativity in the words and expressions?
Standards allow us to convey our message in a format that is recognised and understood. Our creativity will determine how successful we are in reaching our audience and gaining their attention to our art - not the form.
Edward
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costaazaharhomes
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 08:08
I for one am completely on board with the template website, my website is certainly one of those, and it works! I am constantly congratulated and how easy it is to use, customers like it because before they even arrive at my website, they know how to use it, its a comfortable zone for them.
It may be standard schmandard, but I like it, so does my boss and so do our customers, so I am not gonna change it, and that is that.
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fuzzyfreaky
Joined: Feb 23, 2001
# Posts: 39
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Posted: 2003-Oct-02 18:45
I'm not sure what you mean by standards, as opposed to cookie-cutter. To me, the standards are the W3 specs. Someone said above that W3 specs create boring sites compared to IE-only sites. I would dispute this- Cascading Style Sheets and ECMAScript/DOM have many ways to help create beautiful, dynamic sites and we all know that.
As for the navigation and whatnot, I think there's tons of room for variation and even innovation WITHIN the accepted practices on web sites today (eg nav bar on left or top, logo top left, etc) Witness the advent of tabs. We originally had pages with lists or tables of links all over the place. I was one of those people in 1995 or 1996 with a personal home page, you know, the ones with the gray background (or ugly tiled image) and a huge picture of me with a lot of rambling and links to cool sites. In under ten years, that kind of site evolved to use clean navigation bars, and even further still to format those bars to look like filefolder tabs.
Some sites along the way had dropdown menus implemented in DHTML. While this wasn't really standards-compliant and only worked part of the time, it was important that sites tried this out in order to advance the art and science of web design (apologies to Jeff Veen for that phrase).
I'm all for sticking to the comfort zone of users- this is extremely important- but don't think of it as a limitation. Great creativity builds on constraints.
And one more thing on the side- Beta was the superior format but it was poorly marketed and IIRC the licensing was all bizarre if it existed at all 
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14513
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Posted: 2003-Oct-02 19:02
Great discussion:
John said:only recently have I come on board to believe that the expected standards placed upon us by our Web site visitors have merit too.
energy8763 said:Standards allow us to convey our message in a format that is recognised and understood. Our creativity will determine how successful we are in reaching our audience and gaining their attention to our art - not the form.
I add: there is no need to stem creativity within a given medium. There is a way to blend asthetics, energy and individuality within a framework that is accessible. Good for those that strive for this and acheive it.
Welcome to all the new posters in this thread
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thejenn
Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
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Posted: 2003-Oct-06 22:59
Now that was some interesting reading! My welcomes to all the new posters as well.
I really think that energy8763 hit the nail on the head. Standards are not really there to stifle your creativity, they are there to keep you within the realm of reality.
What good is a beautiful site if no one can use it, or even view it? Now, I think that standards, like anything else can be taken too far. There's no reason that every site has to look exactly the same...or even remotely the same.
I suppose what we need to do is to work with designers to get them to view "standards" as a design "challenge" rather than as a limitation.
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energy8763
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 2
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Posted: 2003-Oct-07 22:13
I get the feeling that there re really two standards being discussed here.
If we refer to W3C browser standards there is a wealth of creative tools and design controls to play with. ESPN, FASTCOMPANY, NETSCAPE DEVEDGE have developed their sites using total style sheet control.
If we refer to artistic standards then we enter murky waters as this is a very subjective thing (beauty in the eye of the beholder). Still, the real art is in the navigation and verbal communication moreso than in the unique look of a site.
Jakob Nielsen talks about the telephone as the best metaphor for a web site (http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9705b.html). With this in mind, and before you even think about creativity with your medium, it is best to understand it as your visitors do. What this really means is that there is no sense thinking about artistic freedom and creativity outside of your visitors needs or perspective.
If you want to play with creative concepts that will blow your hair back then get a personal web site to experiment with, but you commercial ventures must put your target market first, or you won't have a market.
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Richard B
Joined: Apr 03, 2000
# Posts: 446
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Posted: 2003-Oct-15 02:52
Web Page Design - The sum of all parts working together toward a common goal.
As long as all parts work to accomplish your main goal I think you can and should be as unique as you want. The problem is, we know certain things work so we tend to stick with it. We also get used to certain things such as where to find the navigation bar. We make it easier for people to find when it is located in the same spot as all other sites. But I don't believe that it can't work some place else or in a different form.
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