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jcokos
Staff
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 171
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Posted: 2003-Sep-29 19:51
Reposted Article from Gazette Issue #205
This week's Scumbag award goes out to two people: Myself for putting too much faith in humanity, and TopSurfer, for destroying that faith and making me even more (if that's possible) jaded. As you know, a large part of JimWorld is our FreeSiteTemplates.com service, wherein we allow designers to upload their templates to add to our own designs, and let you download them for free, with no strings. We don't allow the developers to require copyrights or link backs. The premise of the site is that the templates are there, free, so that beginning Webmasters can have a nice starting point, and so that designers who are in a bind can find something to start from, quickly. Within the templates, we do allow for designers to include a "readme" file so that people downloading their templates can contact them for more work or assistance. In the end, Webmasters get good templates with no strings, designers get exposure and maybe some business, and JimWorld gets lots of traffic, plus due to the way that we distribute the templates, we get more subscribers to The Gazette.
We're also getting screwed. Apparently, the folks at TopSurfer thought it would be a good idea to download all of our templates (for free, using our bandwidth) and sell them as a part of their "service." This was done without our permission and without the permission of the designers whose templates they stole. In addition to this, TopSurfer, after having gotten their copy of The Gazette (everyone that downloads a template is automatically subscribed to receive at least one issue), they thought it would be a good idea to report us to SpamCop. So, not only have they stolen our free material for retail sale, they've taken steps to make sure that The Gazette cannot be sent out to our loyal subscribers. As a result of this, until I can put some more rigid controls on the downloading of templates, I've had to take the freesitetemplates.com download area offline. This is hurting everyone. I'm taking this one personally, folks.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2003-Sep-29 21:40
What did spamcop do? And have you had any correspondence with spamcop about this scam?
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jcokos
Staff
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 171
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Posted: 2003-Sep-30 00:21
Spamcop takes the approach that the second a domain/mailer is reported, it's automatically in their database
Period, no chance to defend yourself in real time.
What that means is that by the time I can respond, the gazette has already gone out, and is screeened by anyone using their service.
Basically, they work on the assumption that the report is always valid, and that all emailers are spam, which we all know, the gazette is not.
In short, we get the hose job 
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joannac
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 267
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Posted: 2003-Sep-30 06:34
Hmm I wonder if those templetes are the ones being offered up on the warez forums. ????
Well what goes around comes around. They maybe selling them but they are also getting ripped off too. he he
J
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chris1804
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2003-Sep-30 12:07
Firstly i'm not a lawyer, so i suggest you contact one for more advice a.s.a.p
Pull the guys website whois,
What i'd suggest you do is...
1. Contact the hosting company and let them know that this site is illegally profiting from your content.
2. Contact your lawyer and get a letter of intention to sue sent off to them and the host a.s.a.p, you stand a chance with this action because they're within the US.
Also they've got to be using a firm for the payment processing, you might even be able to have any revenues they've earned from your content forwarded to you (it sounds unlikely but it has been known) as it's your property they're benefiting from..
Registrant: topsurfer
Administrative Contact:
Thompson, Stan
cortecds@juno.com
Cortec Design Service
2179 West Arthur Dr
West Jordan, Utah 84084
United States
(801) 562-8878
As for the templates, if they're directly linking to your download files i'd include in the read me file and in the source code that the templates are 'free from freewebtemplates' and it you've bought them to demand a refund/chargeback, most processors will scrub accounts with large numbers of chargebacks..
As for Spamcop, contact them again cause that's bs and if still no joy then how's about you put the spamcop email addy in the next gazette and we all email the Spamcop admin email address asking for the forum to be removed from the stoplist (yes i know it's more than a bit ironic but there techys might suddenly find a solution and it can't make things any worse)... do you think this might get their attention quick enough  )
Best of luck, keep up the good work guys and don't let the b****rds get you down,
C
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kkratz
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 2003-Sep-30 18:12
I started to write an email admonishing these scumbags for what they've done - but then I realized they may try and target me next - so I scrubbed the idea. Sorry.
I'm with you - how low can a company go? They make the rest of us look bad too.
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bnichols
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 2
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Posted: 2003-Sep-30 22:21
If the account is true (I have no reason to suspect it isn't) then Scumbag is probably too polite for TopSurfer. They will get their reward!!!
You are not a scumbag. No way! Honest, decent people are a light in the darkness, showing the scumbags how things should be. They should learn from you. I'll stop now before I start getting religious!
B
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crash
Staff
Joined: Dec 02, 2003
# Posts: 10626
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Posted: 2003-Sep-30 23:32
"If the account is true.."
Oh, it's true. A member pointed it out to me. I checked and while I can't say every single template is ours there are a good chunk of them I recognize on site. Especially the one I edited to fix some code errors and in the process altered the appearance slightly. They have the altered thumbnail on the site. That one template negates the argument that they could have gotten the templates directly from the designers. If the original designer had submitted it would have been the original version not my altered version.
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jcokos
Staff
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 171
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 00:22
I would post the email that I got from them requesting, not so politely, to be unsubscribed from the gazette .... but there's only one non-cuss word in it, so I can't in good concience post it here.
I did trace them back to spamcop that day, and saw the report.
Spamcop does a thing where if you don't resend mail from the reported address within 7-10 days, they take you off the block list. So at least that damage was short-term.
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bradh
Joined: Sep 28, 2003
# Posts: 6
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 00:34
I would write (or have my attorney write) an immediate cease and desist order. I would think it might be possible that your programmers would have a potential lawsuit (maybe even class action) against them. They provided their work TO YOU for free distribution. Now their work has been "stolen" because it's been gobbled up for resell. This would possibly break their contract and qualify as stolen intellectual property (I might be stretching here, but it's worth a discussion). I would be interested to see your release forms and what you allow - don't you have some sort of resell clause in it somewhere? I know the webmasters dresell to their customers, but surely there is a clause to keep this kind of thing from happening. ??
This really sucks.
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shante_rs
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 02:23
As lame as the "no chance to defend yourself in real time" submission system is, their terms of service do say that "... a possibility exists that unauthorized additions, deletions and alterations could be made by third parties ... ", and to "please inform Interspectrum so that [the inaccurate addition] can be corrected".
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WinningWays
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3433
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 03:36
Those are weasel words...
I agree that a Cease and Desist Order is due at best.
#$*%&#*$&%!!!
{Sorry for the naughty word... No, I'm really not...}
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heybuddy
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 2
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 06:20
They are makeing money off this. You can demand royalites. Even if they were in public domain.
They use PayPal
PayPal will take the same no questions asked, your guilty, additude has spamcop does. Tell them they are selling your stuff. They will frezze their account. They will remove money from their account to make refunds. It's that simply and that easy. Happens alot if you sell on eBay. You send product, they claim never received, get refund. I quit useing paypal for that.
I ain't scared !! I will write, email, and call
Everybody should call and when he answers, scream SCUMBAG at him and hang up.
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ukgimp
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 35
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 09:34
#ankers. I was just on the lookout for a template.
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chris1804
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 10:21
Got another idea for you if you don't want to go down the legal route..
Find out which websites link to topsurfer and email them the url of this forum, and ask the webmasters if they really want to link to someone with such low morals?.
If you start hitting him where it hurts
(i.e his websites traffic, therefore the cash he earns)
he might decide it really isn't worth it and drop the links.. oh and i'd definately get his paypal a/c suspended if you can..
Hope i've been helpful guys
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heybuddy
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 2
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 17:20
Stan has returned my call. Claims to have spoke with jimworld. Also stated that he bought the stuff off eBay. He is right now removeing the templetes off of his site.
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topsurfer
Joined: Oct 01, 2003
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 17:35
Hi all,
This is Stan Thompson of TopSurfer.com
My apologies to everyone.
I had bought the templates from a member of ebay that had assured me I had full resale rights.
I did not intentionally do anything wrong.
My biggest mistake was that I had trusted someone.
I will do more research next time.
I have removed all references to the templates on topsurfer and apologize to anyone effected.
I too am just trying to make some extra money on the internet. And would never have done anything intentional to hurt anyone else.
I had someone contact me via email claiming to be the owner of JimWorld.com and I have said the same to him that it was an honest mistake.
Once again sorry if this has caused anyone grief.
Thanks,
Stan
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topsurfer
Joined: Oct 01, 2003
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 17:48
One more thing I should mention...
The spamcop accusation could not be true.
"I would post the email that I got from them requesting, not so politely, to be unsubscribed from the gazette .... but there's only one non-cuss word in it, so I can't in good concience post it here.
I did trace them back to spamcop that day, and saw the report."
I never use foul language, even when if it is used to me.
And I only report emails to spamcop after I have requested removal and the emails keep coming.
Or I report them if they adult emails.
There must be a mistake as to who reported you t spamcop.
Thanks,
Stan
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jcokos
Staff
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 171
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 18:36
Maybe you should do a better job of screening who you work with, then. The email came to me from admin@topsurfer.com, and was a nasty one.
Send me the information about the ebay transaction, and I'll delve further into it, as that may be the actual source of the files. I'm open to the possiblility that you're just foolish and not scummy.
I have to ask, though .... didn't you even look into the .zips, and see the readmes and TOS statements? It should have been obvious to you that your ebay purchase was "too good to be true" almost immediately.
Instead of contacting the owners of the templates directly, you went ahead and sold them without question. It's just not good business.
I will make this demand of you publicly right now, though ... take them down, immediately. You do not have full resale rights on them.
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crash
Staff
Joined: Dec 02, 2003
# Posts: 10626
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Posted: 2003-Oct-01 18:44
See, here's the thang.. someone purchased the templates from you, told you that they were ours (as they recognized them), asked for proof of resell and didn't accept what you gave so came to me for confirmation. (Smart business person eh).
They state that they told you what you had, even if you didn't know prior, so you were aware that many of the templates came from us as early as the beginning of September if not sooner, yet you did nothing about it yourself. Had you been proactive and contacted John or myself to investigate the situation things might have been handled differently. Instead the person contacted me directly and made me aware of the situation.
I am also aware that you have sold more than a few of the packages with the templates. I highly recommend you notify those you sold them to and make them aware that they do not in-fact have resell rights to the templates originating from JimWorld (and I suspect the rest as well). It would definitely be a sign of good faith, one you have yet to make. I also recommend that you place a notice on your site detailing the situation, that you bought them off ebay and that you do not have resell rights nor the authority to grant resell rights.
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