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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2004-Oct-14 05:07
Kerry won 3 in a row ... the polls seem to say, next time, maybe a vote isn't necessary, we'll let Michael Moore decide?
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gamiziuk
Joined: Aug 23, 2000
# Posts: 630
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Posted: 2004-Oct-14 05:44
Yea, in your dreams...
Kerry can hang this one up. Democrats can start preparing for the 2008 election. Newt vs. Madame Hillary.
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2004-Oct-14 06:47
Now that's the response I want to see.
I want this thread to be a last resort, ... a place for all Republicans, to have a voice to vent thier frustration. 
After all ... the proven power of the Bush family to be elected, must be a frustrating thing for Republicans, that are involved in a second look.
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philh
Joined: Sep 14, 2001
# Posts: 3050
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 12:26
Here's one for you Bill
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/viewsofamerica/story/0,15221,1327568,00.html
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thejenn
Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 18:28
According to a survey, voters in eight out of the 10 countries, including Britain, want to see the Democrat challenger, John Kerry, defeat President Bush in next month's US presidential election.
ROTFL. Guess what? We don't give a flip. We don't have the right to elect their leaders, they have on say in ours.
One of the best bumper stickers I've seen this time around?
"9 out of 10 terrorists support John Kerry"
Did you watch the debates Bill? Or are you simply assuming that Kerry won based on what you've read in the papers? Because honestly, I've spoken with some fairly liberal individuals over here that are quite shocked at the press's declaration that John Kerry won. In other words, I know fierce John Kerry supporters that have said "at best, it was a tie."
Even if he did win, here's something to consider...
If you want to base that statement on the "insta-polls" that come out after the debates, you need to consider this:
The way these polls work is that someone is called by a survey research firm and they are told that if they watch the debate they will be called again afterward. The person dutifully watches the debate "not as a political consumer, but as a debate coach, scoring hits and misses. It is a completely different experience for that person."
[quote from a story by Rich Galen]
Now, on Kerry's behalf I will say this...
Prior to the debates, I think he was having a difficult time portraying himself as someone that was a strong potential alternative to George W. Bush. In other words, a large portion of Americans felt that he lacked the leadership skills, character and experience that it takes to be President. This was reflected in the fairly strong lead that George Bush showed in the polls going into the debates. (Leads ranging from 5-9 points, depending on the poll)
Now, what Kerry had to accomplish with the debates was to demonstrate to the American people that he WAS a viable alternative to Bush. He did this and he did it well. He elevated himself to a position where on the national scene, he could "compete" with Bush.
The problem Kerry has is that he's running against an incumbant. When you run against an incumbant, you have to not only show that you are a viable alternative, you have to show that you are a BETTER alternative. In other words, he needs to make a strong case that George Bush needs to be replaced. Bush pretty much just has to show that maintaining the status quo isn't a bad thing. That's a much easier political point to make.
Kerry has not (yet) succeeded in doing that. Thus, depsite polls showing a virtually tied race, I am still not confident in Kerry's prospects at winning. I think it's going to be close, but I think Bush is going to see another four more years.
One thing I would like to note that I personally find to be VERY interesting...
Lots of talk about the economy this time, how bad it is, how many jobs have been lost, how it's the end of the world. The unemployment rate right now is 5.4%. That's .2% lower than it was in 1996 when Clinton was re-elected. Interest rates are currently averaging 5.3% on a 30 year fixed mortgage. In 1996, when Clinton was re-elected, it was 7.3%. Inflation is roughly the same right now as it was when Clinton was relected (and was as low as 1.25% during Bush'es presidency.)
Clinton's 1996 platform focused heavily on the amazing economic boom times that we were experience. The low unemployment rate, low interest rates, low inflation..etc.
I look at that data and Kerry and the press honestly wants me to believe that we are in a horrible economic downturn? Excuse me? Do they think I'm an absolute idiot? Lower unemployment, lower interest rates and lower inflation translates to a bad economy?
Where did these guys get their degrees? Phoenix Online?
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philh
Joined: Sep 14, 2001
# Posts: 3050
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 18:33
>>Guess what? We don't give a flip.
Says it all...
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thejenn
Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 18:36
Says it all...
I agree. I wasn't being sarcastic when I said that. Think about it seriously from this point of view...
One of the things that other countries dislike about Americans is that we are always telling them how to do things. I agree with them, it's annoying and it's rarely our business to interfere. If you live in France and you want Chirac as your leader, that's your right. If you live in the UK and your country elects Blair, more power to you. After all, you live there and thus, you have the best grasp on the political impact of one leader over another.
The same goes for the United States. Unless you live here every day, you have no business telling us who our leaders should be. I would never dream to tell you (philh) that you're nuts if you don't re-elect Blair...because I simply don't have the experience or the knowledge to make a fair decision and because the decision wouldn't really impact my day to day live anyway.
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philh
Joined: Sep 14, 2001
# Posts: 3050
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 18:42
When a country like yours that dominates world politics elects it's leader the rest of the world is allowed an opinion. We are not telling you who your leader should be - we are commenting on who we would prefer.
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thejenn
Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 18:47
That's fine. I certainly won't deny anyone an opinion, just staying that whether you support Kerry OR Bush, I don't give a flip.
Still love ya though.
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philh
Joined: Sep 14, 2001
# Posts: 3050
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 18:49
And I love you too
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thejenn
Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 19:34
see? now why can't the world just get along like that.
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philh
Joined: Sep 14, 2001
# Posts: 3050
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 20:30
That's the question Jen
Anyone?
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greenleaves
Joined: Mar 21, 2002
# Posts: 720
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 21:13
<joking> I can't stand it, too many warm fusssy fealings, arg, I'm out a here</joking>
Have no idea ;0
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 22:34
It's very simple, the US is a Bull, and the world is a China Shop. You break, you buy.
>>Did you watch the debates Bill?
I did, and in watching George W Bush, I can only imagine how painful it must have been for any Republican to watch. I truly felt sorry for your team.
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philh
Joined: Sep 14, 2001
# Posts: 3050
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Posted: 2004-Oct-15 23:20
Go Bill Go...
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gamiziuk
Joined: Aug 23, 2000
# Posts: 630
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Posted: 2004-Oct-16 06:39
According to a survey, voters in eight out of the 10 countries, including Britain, want to see the Democrat challenger, John Kerry, defeat President Bush in next month's US presidential election.
http://www.foreignleaders4kerry.com/
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jcokos
Staff
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 171
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Posted: 2004-Oct-16 23:49
That's reason enough to vote for W
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2004-Oct-17 03:57
Personally, I think, if 41 was currently upfront and center, it would be a easy choice. It is only the obvious lack of speaking skill that has harmed 43.
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thejenn
Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
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Posted: 2004-Oct-18 22:06
LOL...you know, many historical writers have written and reflected on what a poor public speaker Lincoln was. Good thing TV and radio didn't really exist then. He SAID amazing things and is remembered for that, but his delivery of them was apparently quite lacking.
Many have also said that FDR could never be elected today because of the wheelchair issue. I believe them, and I think that's sad.
Being president isn't a popularity contest, nor is it about who looks best on TV. It's about who will do the best job.
"I did, and in watching George W Bush, I can only imagine how painful it must have been for any Republican to watch. I truly felt sorry for your team."
LOL...it's all in how you view it. Again, I'm not looking at how they say something, I'm looking at what they say. That makes a mighty big difference... I watched the same debates you did and sat there thinking "Man, if I was for Kerry, I think I'd have to shoot myself." It's all in your perspective (and your preconcieved opinions...)
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2004-Oct-19 05:46
>>preconcieved opinions
If true, for me, then it may be true for you? 
Regardless, the latest polls seam to say that Bush is in.
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