Recently Themestream put a cap on earnings for content contributors, probably in reaction to a few promoters like myself who have drawn a lot of traffic to the site (at ten cents per view). Obviously, this is pricey for them, and the utility of having a small percentage of contributors bring in the lion's share of "unique visitors" may have waned.

But should it? Aside from revenue potential, domain value, and other measures to determine the site's viability, what is the key ingredient necessary before the factors come into play in terms of determining a site's viability? Is it traffic, without which the site couldn't survive?

If this is the case, the incentive to drive traffic to the site has been killed with the cap on earnings. It takes up to six months to get a URL to perform, and as you know, many man-hours of tweaking, fiddling, swearing and hair pulling to make them rise throught the ranks and get noticed. A payment cap of $350 per URL may be reasonable for the content itself, but what about the marketing and SE management required to make the URL produce?

As only a few contributors will ever bother with SEs and optimzing their Web pages to draw traffic to Themestream, the payout cap isn't really going to do much but force high-powered (big draw) contributors elsewhere, where there is no cap on earnings.

Along with them will go a good bit of traffic. I'm now pulling in 100,000 unique views per month--there are twenty or so others doing the same. If we get zero return for our effort, we obviously have to put our energy elsewhere.

The question is, at this stage in the site's development, what is most critical? Traffic in terms of unique visitors per month, or some other measure?

dan

The pilot and flight crew literally asked these Arab American passengers to pick up their bags and get off the plane in not the nicest of terms, telling these passengers that because they are middle-eastern the flight crew does not feel safe flying with them.

In response to this the government has sent the airlines a warning stating that it is illegal to object to a passenger simply because of his race or ethnicity and that FAA security guidelines do not allow racial discrimination regardless of paranoia.

The airlines seem to be burying their heads in the sand and pretending like this is not happening, the news media is not exactly jumping on the story with their full might and is probably not going to put any pressure on the airlines to change their ways. What a tragedy.

Many people in this country are shouting that Arab Americans should not be suspected of anything based on their race and coming together on television with solidarity, while these same hypocritical people are secretly not wanting to fly with Arab Americans to the point of having them kicked off of regular flights.

These people have shown one thing, that they don't understand the meaning of the word hypocrite.

How are Arab Americans supposed to travel to business meetings on time if they can be kicked off of any commerical flight because of their race and forced to take a later flight or the train?

Delta Airlines and other airlines have "no comment" on these incidents, although two of the passengers are saying they are filing a lawsuit.

They've capped earnings, eliminated a massive number of categories and made changes that artifically increased page views.

They must come up with a way to generate revenue if they are to survive now that investors expect solid business plans and of all things, profits.

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they were carrying pocket knives or box cutters, AND they were supposedly headed to Florida to take flight training. Call me paranoid, but I'm with the pilot on that one.

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It's this kind of off-topic statement that makes talking about serious issues almost impossible, my post is not talking about that incident and I believe that you knew that.

Lynne, what you mentioned above has nothing to do with my post in this case, I am talking about the 5 passengers in the last couple days who were asked to leave their planes because several flight crew members "didn't feel comfortable" with them since they were Arab Americans.

Please research the facts of what I am talking about since it was reported on every major news network yesterday, and PLEASE STOP spreading untrue statements that the people I am talking about had boxcutters on them. They were officially asked to leave because of their ethnicity as confirmed by the officials that escorted them off the plane.

The airlines have told their crews that they don't have to fly with anybody they "do not feel comfortable with" (which is apparently allowed by federal law in some cases if they have good reason).

However, these flight crews are using that authority too broadly by basing it on "ethnicity only" which is illegal when used as a basis for kicking off passengers, as the government told the airlines after these incidents happened.

Delta, Northwest, and other airlines in the last 4 days have kicked off Arab American passengers from regular domestic flights citing the reason that the flight crews didn't feel comfortable flying with Arab Americans. And no, there were no boxcutters or pilot licenses involved for those that are bent on distorting these important incidents.

There was no other reason given and the fact that many people even here are immediately "rejecting that fact" and reporting false "boxcutter stories" is what will allow this kind of activity to continue unopposed.

The Arab American passengers were kicked off the plane without having done anything, and this fact was reported in the news media ON EVERY MAJOR NEWS CHANNEL (ask a friend if you missed it) so the fact that you are trying to compare these recent incidents with some Newfoundland flight with people carrying boxcutters is really just diverting people from learning the truth and discussing this important matter.

[This message has been edited by Alvin Keeney (edited 09-23-2001).]

Aboard a flight headed to a Caribbean destination an agitated passenger seated next to a black man waved at an airline stewardness. Upon approach, the passenger began a brief but loud tirade so the rest of the plane could hear "I can't believe that you did this. I specifically requested a window seat and I can't believe an airline such as yours would possibly put me next to this man. Look at him, I can't possibly sit next to him for the next four hours. I am absolutely disgusted - I want to be moved and I want you to do something about this immediately." After a moments pause the stewardess turned to the woman and replied. "Of course. Our mistake - this should never have happened.". She then turned to the negro and said "Sir, we deeply apologize for the inconvenience. Could you please collect your belongings and carry on luggage?". She then continued on, "You should never have to sit next to such a hatefiul person. If you could come with me then we'll find you a place in first class."

To which the rest of the airplane cheered and applauded.

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The airlines seem to be burying their heads in the sand and pretending like this is not happening, the news media is not exactly jumping on the story with their full might and is probably not going to put any pressure on the airlines to change their ways.

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this fact was reported in the news media ON EVERY MAJOR NEWS CHANNEL

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you also said:

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In response to this the government has sent the airlines a warning stating that it is illegal to object to a passenger simply because of his race or ethnicity and that FAA security guidelines do not allow racial discrimination regardless of paranoia.

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then you report:

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two of the passengers are saying they are filing a lawsuit.

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cellularnews, you said:

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Personally, I would be very uncomfortable travelling on a plane with any Americans on it - I mean, one of them could be another Oklahoma bomber.

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[This message has been edited by haplodog (edited 09-23-2001).]

I mean, the news networks drooled over everything in the OJ simpson trial that related to race issues of any kind and reported them for weeks repetitiously. However, they just buried this particular story since the American public doesn't want to be reminded that not many people want to fly with Arab American males right now (the dirty little secret that our society doesn't even want to talk about).

Of course, we all stand up and want to show 'solidarity' together and to preach that discrimination against Arab-Americans is wrong (as long as we don't have to sit in an aircraft with them, that is).

I started this thread to confirm a theory of mine actually, and I was correct. I knew that not only would there be no serious reactions against this serious discrimination news, but that others would probably come forward to discredit or belittle this issue that I brought forward.

Or I knew that others would come forward to simply say "yes that's wrong, but not something that we should dwell on since there are more important issues like expressing insincere solidarity with Arab Americans".

The only thing we seem to know how to do is to pay lip service to issues, lip service and sound bytes rule our society right now.

We, as Americans, have a way of lying to ourselves and choosing not to believe anything that we don't want to believe, that is something I have noticed and confirmed.

But I am done in this thread now, and even though I am not surprised at the lack of concern shown I am still disappointed. Oh well, may the flames against my opinion begin

Unfortunately there is both good and bad in every society and on the whole the good usually balances out. There are a select few in any country you care to choose who use opportunities like this to harass others and genuinely create trouble.

Have we had mosques set on fire or muslims beaten here since then? Of course. Will this continue to happen for years to come? Certainly. The only reason its in the news right now at all is because the media can draw some sort of correlation between these incidents and September 11 and try to get some "news" and a leg up over the other stations. Take a look at the TV, they're all competing with each other right now over who can show the worst picture, interview the secretive FBI or get the best close up of a grieving family. Truthfully, it makes me sick, leave these people alone, they've suffered enough.

There are stories about this all over the web. Search for the (one) guys name, Ashraf Khan. For example, the first place I checked, Yahoo:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ksat/20010919/lo/909494_1.html

That doesn't excuse racial profiling by pilots, no more than it excuses your implication that Delta or any other airline sanctions prejudice and discrimination by its pilots. The acts of a few idiot pilots doesn't make it a company policy.

It is hardly "buried". I saw reports on it on cable and local news, my local newspaper has run articles, and many web sites have run them too. You can't expect them to keep it on the front page every day when there is so much other news to talk about.

The Airlines aren't going to comment publically on anything that involves a lawsuit against them. No company does.

As with most incidents of this magnitude, news gets reported inaccurately as the networks rush to scoop each other.

There was a report on the 11th that a car bomb was intercepted on a NY bridge and the driver had instructions to blow up the bridge.

Turned out to be pure BS but the story still lives on inn the minds of millions of people who accuse the government and the media of burying this story.

If you look hard enough you can talk your self into believing this was all done by a man standing with a rifle on the grassy knoll.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

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I started this thread to confirm a theory of mine actually, and I was correct.

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You're very clever.

I also heard that single story that a "majority" of passengers complained to the flight crew before the flight in some uniform manner, but that was just one incident and certainly didn't account for all of the incidents reported as you so eloquently were trying to imply Jim.

There are still other incidents where that wasn't reported.

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"Then he told me 'Mr. Kahn, I want you to pick up your luggage inside the plane and I don't want you to fly with me on this flight,'" Kahn told KSAT 12 News. "'Me and my crew make a decision that we're not secure flying with you.'"

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Didn't happen here, but I guess we should sweep that under the carpet too. Okay, I'll play along for now.

A majority of the passengers got up and complained to the flight crew and then the noble and heroic flight crew, thinking about the majority's well being and not their own prejudices, had no choice but to expel the undesirables from the plane to save humanity.

I am honestly laughing a bit right now, no joke What a bunch of hogwash Jim, I think you are a smart man and I find it hard to believe that you would fall for that kind of line.

Besides, even for that one incident, I have a hard time believing that a "majority" of passengers all got up, went to the cockpit, and complained at the same time that either the Arab Americans would have to go or they would be leaving.

In reality, a few LOUD and VOCAL passengers probably complained and went around the cabin causing anti arab sentiment making the rest of the people feel uncomfortable and rallying a few others to support them, and the flight crew used their authority to kick off the Arab Americans rather than try to quiet the disturbance since the average flight attendant is not really trained to do much anyway (besides serve drinks and pillows) which is part of the problem I think.

That seems most logical even though obviously that is just MY GUESS and may NOT be the case.

Even a jury of 12 people needs a foreman to keep them organized, I find it hard to believe there were not some loud anti arab americans starting this whole thing.

If a majority of people on those particular flights all got up at the same time and threatened not to fly in some random fashion just by coincidence and on their own (without being rallied by a few others), then that would defy logic since the passengers of the later flights (that these men flew on) did not complain at all which would mean that just by coicidence an entire plane full of biggots just happened to be on those particular earlier planes?? All these biggots at one time just happened to be there on earlier planes only is not logical.

More likely, a few loud biggots rallied support and caused a disturbance which is illegal anyway according the to government, but which the average flight attendant certainly is not prepared to deal with since they are as undertrained and underpaid as the airport screening crews which government officials have said are equivalent to burger flippers (a derogatory comparison, but one aired on the networks this week).

It's definietely more likely that a few loud passengers got up and stirred up a lot of anti arab complaints and commotion, but of course, I doubt we as Americans want to believe that so if it makes it easier for all of you to believe that the entire plane rebelled all at the same time out of noble reasons then please continue believing that remakable story.

Sometimes a cigar is a cigar and sometimes people are wronged and do not need to be discounted and thrown by the wayside by the rest of us.

And as for burying the story, that is just another way of saying that the networks are no longer pressing the airlines or giving them bad publicity for this as they normally do for lesser incidents. The airlines are getting 5 billion in instant taxpayer cash and 10 billion more in loans, and for that kind of money I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that they take these matters seriously and not sweep them under the carpet.

I am disgusted and not ashamed to admit that.

Okay, I am truly done now. No more posts here for little ol' me

PS - I think our flight attendants should be selected from a higher quality of applicants and also be more highly trained, because anybody with qualifications to be a burger flipper can be hired as a flight attendant and that puts lives in jeopardy I think. We need to pay them more money and to give them crowd control training on how to diffuse situations of mass unrest.

[This message has been edited by Alvin Keeney (edited 09-24-2001).]

I seriously doubt the quote you give was actually said. The major airlines hire at least fairly well educated pilots, that speak English with proper grammar.

Yes, a pilot can and SHOULD have the right to kick any one off a flight that could be a potential threat. But, I have very serious doubts that a pilot would not at least speak correctly as he did his duty to his passengers.

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I seriously doubt the quote you give was actually said. The major airlines hire at least fairly well educated pilots, that speak English with proper grammar.

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Janet, actually I think the quote was from an Arab passenger recalling what he was told from the pilot in his own words, that is the reason for the broken english.

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Yes, a pilot can and SHOULD have the right to kick any one off a flight that could be a potential threat.

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Again, a person being of Arab descent doesn't make him a "threat" to everybody on every flight just becuase of his race Janet, that is called "racial profiling".

What if this involved African Americans, would you support kicking them off of any flight upon the leisure and discretion of any pilot simply because that pilot was attacked by an African American in the past and fears them for that reason?

You seem to be missing the point of this thread, if somebody is acting suspicious or is causing problems on a plane then I also support the pilot kicking that person off in a heartbeat, but I don't support pilots doing that just because a passenger is of Arab descent and the pilot is prejudice against Arabs and feels threatened by having them sitting in his plane.

According to your logic Janet, any pilot that has prejudices against Arabs to the point they feel threatened by any Arab male can and should be able to kick them off any flight at any time in the future for no reason other than race, which kind of makes travel difficult for Arabs trying to get to business meetings on time, etcetera.

You should just listen to yourself in defending the belief that Arabs are threats for nothing more than the pilot's own prejudices. Pilots are human and have prejudices based on race just like everybody else, but that doesn't make their prejudices any more real.

Raical profiling is wrong and I had to come forward again to counter your support of this tactic by pilots.

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PS - I think our flight attendants should be selected from a higher quality of applicants and also be more highly trained, because anybody with qualifications to be a burger flipper can be hired as a flight attendant and that puts lives in jeopardy I think.

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right. should we sweep this under the carpet too? how many flight attendants do you know?

here you are complaining about discrimination about arab americans and you have the gall to tell people that all flight attendants have the qualifications of a "burger flipper"..?