Catalyst
Joined: Oct 24, 2001
# Posts: 130
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Posted: 2004-Jan-28 23:26
Norton Internet Security and Firewall are blocking most affiliate links & banners and even AdWords and Adsense ads. It also blocks most ad servers. It may even be blocking your own site logo if it is a certain image size.
FYI - When I say "blocked" I mean erased, wiped out and invisible. It leaves a blank white spot where the banner or text link should have been, making it look like your site is messed up or you are missing information. It totally strips out your osurce code too. With AdWords and Adsense ads the body copy is visible but the link is missing so you cannot click.
I have been researching this issue for awhile now, and have posted a warning here before, but just finally downloaded the software to start testing. I'm APPALLED and ENRAGED at how this software DEFACES websites and can effect webmaster/affiliate revenue!
THE DEFAULT IS SET TO BLOCK ADS, so for non savvy users that don't realize how much Norton blocks, they will just think your site is poorly designed or info is missing when the see all the white spaces. Norton is being shipped with many new computers so I think this problem will grow.
Please download the FREE trial of Norton Internet Security (which includes the Firewall software too.) Check your site!
Since a picture is worth a thousand words I have built a page full of examples to display the problem and spread the word. Thought I would share so you can see the damage it does.
http://www.5staraffiliateprograms.com/norton-blocks-revenue.html
There are also links to a forum were people are testing and trying to come up with workarounds. We have some possible solutions.
If you are an affiliate that sells Norton, please stop promoting it. If any of your links are blocked let your merchants and advertisers know about this problem.
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 2004-Jan-28 23:38
I use Norton, and none of the above is blocked for me ...
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2004-Jan-30 10:43
unreviewed, it's probably the latest version that has the ad/text links/images removal feature of Norton Firewall turned on by default. That's what I've been reading is the case.
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7042
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Posted: 2004-Feb-03 21:46
When a user sees all the white space on all the websites they surf I'm sure that they'll be aware that ad-blocking is going on.
As far as actual affiliate links and revenue being lost, at this point it's not much of a concern, as the majority of internet users don't have any of Norton products. If it was automatically turned on in the latest Internet Explorer browser then that would be a different issue. But at this point, if people want to block ads then fine; I just don't think it will have any impact on your or my affiliate income.
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jbgilbert
Joined: Sep 16, 2002
# Posts: 321
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Posted: 2004-Feb-03 22:03
Sorry bhartzer but I have to disagree with you on this one.
There are literally millions of internet users who subscribe to Norton antivirus products. If the new releases of Norton install and turn on ad blocking by default, it could mean a serious impact to affiliates.
It could also generate a serious contact from Yahoo (Overture) and Google to Symantec (Norton).
The questions is, is this the true default of a generic Norton install, or is it the default if you choose to use Norton firewall services? We need to know more.
WE NEED TO KNOW MORE....
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7042
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Posted: 2004-Feb-04 16:52
I know there's a lot of people using Norton, but I use McAfee products to I don't know anything about Norton. What I do know is that if I installed something and suddenly I didn't see any ads on any websites that I went to I would certainly know that I did something. And I'd most likely turn it off (ad blocking).
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jbgilbert
Joined: Sep 16, 2002
# Posts: 321
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Posted: 2004-Feb-04 16:58
Yeah.... but you are a real smart guy bhartzer...
There are millions of computer users who (believe it or not) don't know how to do that.
It's these same millions of novices that many affiliates depend on for clicks.
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debunked
Joined: Jan 22, 2004
# Posts: 97
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Posted: 2004-Feb-09 17:54
I will have to say I am extremely pleased with the ad blocker and I don't even need it since we have high speed access.
I understand what affiliates do, but since most sites are just full of junk and tons of affiliate links, I like the fact I have blanks on the screen because it saves me time. I don't click on most affiliate type stuff because of price, quality or just the fact it is another home based business scam that the links are for.
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sirduncan
Joined: Jun 15, 2000
# Posts: 481
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Posted: 2004-Feb-11 16:13
I just installed Internet Security 2004 and all adword titles disappeared. (along with banner advertisments too) I went through the options and found the option to allow those again. It had blocked some 400+ advertisements in a matter of 2 days.
yes - it defaults to blocking that stuff. You have to turn off the blocking. I know. I jsut did it.
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jbgilbert
Joined: Sep 16, 2002
# Posts: 321
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Posted: 2004-Feb-11 18:41
I understand what affiliates do, but since most sites are just full of junk and tons of affiliate links, I like the fact I have blanks on the screen
debunked... you may like it, but I bet Google AdWords and Overture won't like it!
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vivi4427
Joined: Feb 12, 2004
# Posts: 4
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Posted: 2004-Feb-13 03:43
I am very pleased that NIS does it. Affiliation is becoming the next spam and I just don't want to see those ads. NIS gives me a choise thats why I like it.
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7042
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Posted: 2004-Feb-13 19:11
Affiliation is becoming the next spam...
I disagree. Just because you're an affiliate doesn't mean that you're spamming or that it's spam.
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vivi4427
Joined: Feb 12, 2004
# Posts: 4
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Posted: 2004-Feb-14 23:13
Let's not start tripping over semantics here. One affiliation is not equal the other affiliation.
The other day I needed to fix my leaking roof and searched Google for asphalt shingle installation instructions. About 10 sites out of first 20 were the redirecting affiliate sites of the same online pharmacy selling the usual nonsense that has nothing to do whatsoever with the search terms. That's what I call spam.
On the other hand I suspect that Catalyst is paid to represent somebody else’s interests. Most of what he says doesn’t make much sense from "permission marketing" point of view.
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Catalyst
Joined: Oct 24, 2001
# Posts: 130
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Posted: 2004-Feb-15 19:58
vivi4427 - I'm a "she" and I'm not paid to represent anyone's interest on the Norton issue, just trying to spread awareness so people realize the issues.
From a permission marketing viewpoint, here are some of my concerns. If a surfer is shopping for blue widgets and lands on an affiliate site because they want to buy blue widgets, they can't if all the links are deleted. Many non-techical surfers don't even realize that Norton is blocking the content, they just assume the site is "broken". Many of tese surfers end up wasting alot of ISP, computer and software tech support time, then trying to figure out why they have big white spaces and can't see some online content. They don't even realize Norton is what is doing the blocking. Do some research and you will see even big companies like the Washington Post have support issues due to Norton blocking.
I am all for popup blockers and can even see giving people the option to block banners, but Norton IS blocks lots of info it should not. It blocks lext links which are not invasive and it even deletes your own site logo and regular site images if they a certain size.
A major issue IMO is also that it's not just blocking the info, it actually strips out the source code and can completly change your site content. Even if someone wants to buy on your site but can't see your links and emails you for help - you can have them turn off the blocker and hit reload and YOUR page content still cannot be seen.
Blocking ads is one thing. Completely stripping parts of source code out and totally changing page content like it does here http://www.5staraffiliateprograms.com/irvsblocked.html is going overboard and does not help the user experience, but just causes supprt problems.
In my opinion, if it was sold as an ad blocker it would be one thing. It's sold as a SECURITY product. Therefore adblocking should be an option and NOT on by default.
Here are some other threads where people are talking about possible solutions and workarounds if anyone is interested in more info. http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=12663&start=0
In this thread software is being developed (toward the end of the thread) to block Nortons ad blocking tactics. http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=548608979&f=179600589&m=7236025945&p=1
I have worked with some of the Indie tracking solutions to find workarounds and their links are no longer being blocked by Norton. CJ is also working on a fix.
I hope this info is helpful for anyone who is looking for ways to get around the issue and trying to preserve more of their webmaster income.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2004-Feb-29 11:21
There's no reason for Norton to be blocking all the text link ads on a site. That's just crazy and defaces my web sites and causes me and other affiliates a loss of income. Besides that it makes sites look like they have a first grader writing their content because it chops out words and sentences making paragraphs that contain affiliate URLs have missing words. Norton is changing my page much like what eZula was/is doing except in this instance, content is being removed and eZula adds in text links. Either way, my affiliate sites could lose revenue. That's the issue.
I have a right to have my pages viewed as they should be viewed and norton's changing that without my permission. It's as if a company secretly broke into a newspaper factory and deleted all the ads before they were delivered to the people getting the newspaper—same is happening to affiliate sites. The newspaper relies on the ads for their income. When people don't see the ads, the newspaper loses revenue. Affiliate sites are pretty much the same—no ads no revenue.
People complained about eZula changing content and now those same people praise NORTON for changing content that a surfer surfs too. If people don't want my pages the way I created them, STAY THE HECK OFF OF THEM. I make my content to earn some income (in some cases) and not for people who want to leech from my server without some form of compensation. What would happen if JIMWORLD were to have all their ads blocked? Do you think the JIMWORLD owners would be happy about that? Bet you'd all start paying a fee to visit boards like this if that were the case.
I'd rather let the ads through than to make it so that site owners have to start charging for each page viewed. COM'ON PEOPLE, be smart about it. Better to put up with some ads than to have to pay for every sort of page viewed for content you want to read.
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NikkiTikki
Joined: Mar 02, 2004
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 07:36
Affiliate links are of two types:
1. A commission payment program or
2. Advertising space paid for by a retailer on a performance basis.
Both are standard business arrangements.
A truly enormous segment of the working population of the U.S. is paid by commission. They are not on the Internet. They sell one kind of product or service day after day and are paid a commission for doing this well.
So when you complain about affiliate programs, shouldn't you also be complaining about the people in your life who earn their living by selling on commission? After all, they are affiliates of whoever they are selling for.
Do you read newspapers? Magazines? Are you willing to pay the full price for that content if they suddenly stopped selling advertising. I really doubt you would be very happy with this arrangement.
Do you also advocate banning retail businesses? With this way of thinking, they are just parasites on the manufacturers. They don't manufacture anything and they make their money with markups, which is just another variation on commissions.
As far as web site content being offensive: There is absolutely nothing keeping a web surfer from leaving any website if they are offended by its content. The web site owner pays for that web site and places it there for people who want their content. If they don't want the content they should leave. This is like asserting that because a visitor to my home doesn't like cats, they have the right to have my cats removed.
Website visitors: before you get all fired up about "commericalism" on the web, stop and think. Are you actually willing to pay for all that content? Someone has to pay for the servers, the work, the time involved. And it sure isn't you.
Stop and think: Have you visited Yahoo lately? Do you like Google's services? How about Amazon? Where on earth do you think they get their products? They certainly don't manufacture them.
No, they are paid a commission or they are paid a fee.
By the way, I have written to Commission Junction. They confirm that there is a problem with Norton blocking affiliate links, images and ads. They advise that they are currently working on the problem.
[ Message was edited by: bhartzer 11/05/2004 09:35 am ... Reason: removed extra blank lines in this post. ]
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Silv
Joined: Aug 10, 1999
# Posts: 1668
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Posted: 2004-Mar-07 16:37
Very, very well said, NikkiTikki. Welcome to the forums - hope you stick around.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2004-Mar-16 19:12
This thread just got some exposure from this Norton report:
——> http://www.isedb.com/news/index.php?t=reviews&id=749
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Catalyst
Joined: Oct 24, 2001
# Posts: 130
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Posted: 2004-Mar-18 16:44
Hi All,
I have published several articles recently and in doing research have discovered 3 workarounds or software fixes for the Norton issue. Also have added lots of other good resources, links to more articles and forums discussing the issues. You can find all the resources and software fixes at the bottom of this page. http://www.5staraffiliateprograms.com/norton-blocks-revenue.html
Also for anyone who wants to know more in-depth info about why what Norton is doing is wrong - not just because it blocks webmaster revenue, but for additional reasons as well, read my latest article published in about.com here: http://marketing.about.com/cs/internetmarketing/a/norton2004.htm
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Catalyst
Joined: Oct 24, 2001
# Posts: 130
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Posted: 2004-Aug-02 16:43
HI all,
There is quite a lot of new info on this page and some new potential fixes. Please let me know if you have discovered anything that protects your links so I can add it to this page.
Linda
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