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meta nocache tags (In: Google)
Does anyone know how to put tags in VB forums? (In: General Search Engine Optimization)
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darrens
Joined: May 27, 2004
# Posts: 182
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Posted: 2004-Oct-16 15:47
Can someone explain about keywords and how they should be used ?
I know what keywords are but im not sure how i should use them.
At the moment i am placing my keyword (motor bikes) in <h1> tags ? is this correct ?
Im placing this word on my page as often as possible but i have just read that if a SE spider reads it to often it will start to work against me ?
If i have my keyword (motor bikes) 15 times on my page does it help if everytime i place it in <h1> or should i maybe place it 5 times in <h1> 5 times in <h2> and 5 in <h3> ?
That bring me onto my next point <hx> tags ?
<h1> is the most important so shold i forget about using the <h2,3,4> ?
Or would this be better ...
<h1>Motor Bikes</h1>
<h2>Red motor bikes</h2>
<p><h3>Red motor bikes first became the best colour when ... .. .. ... . ... ... . . .... . .. . </h3></p>
Reading the forums there seems to be mixed signals as to the best or correct way to use <hx> tags !
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yellowwing
Joined: May 21, 2002
# Posts: 2526
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Posted: 2004-Oct-17 04:18
Ultimately you want the reader to make sense of what you are publishing about your motor bikes. If they see something really bizarre, they will be less convinced you know what you are talking about.
With that out of the way, SEs like header tags and targeted keywords. No, they don't like unecessary repetition.
A <H?></h?> as near to the top of the page-code is usually enough to out rank the competition. Your company-logo.gif followed by <H1>Motor Bikes</h1> is effective, if it is in a nice font and color to please the first time reader.
Write the content as you would normally explain to someone asking about your motor bikes. Don't go nuts repeating 'motor bikes', but be thorough enough to get your message across.
Keep focused on motor bikes. Don't go on a tangent with a paragraph on bike trailers or chrome sprockets.
At the bottom of the page content, rehash the main theme in a bold-italic font to anchor the content theme of the whole page. Custom Motor Bikes...Customer Satisfaction, you know, give it some style!
Google likes the content at the top of the page, Yahoo like to look at the whole page. The bold-italic rehash, is for Yahoo. You can optimize a page for both search engines! 
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beth_lk
Staff
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
# Posts: 1308
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Posted: 2004-Oct-18 01:37
If I may please bump in here I have almost the same type of questions.....
Except mine is more of a HTML type ?
How do I make a heading 1 for the SE's and yet not show it as a actual heading 1 in size?
sorry darrens.......if I crashed your post - maybe you can help me out
Beth
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yellowwing
Joined: May 21, 2002
# Posts: 2526
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Posted: 2004-Oct-18 05:29
How do I make a heading 1 for the SE's and yet not show it as a actual heading 1 in size?
That's not a good idea. That can get you banned from the search engines! 
Try either different sizes, H2-H4, or just a bold font. See which one fits your overall design.
To get away from the nick-pick details, the purpose of the header or bold is to give the search engines, and visitors, an initial clue to what the page is about.
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Ron C
Joined: Jul 23, 1999
# Posts: 1468
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Posted: 2004-Oct-18 15:17
The H1 tag is notoriously ugly.
In most browsers, the H tags are designed to run the same size as the font size attribute, but in reverse order. For example:
H6 is the same size as font size 1 ( 55%)
H5 is the same size as font size 2 ( 75%)
H4 is the same size as font size 3 (100%)
H3 is the same size as font size 4 (110%)
H2 is the same size as font size 5 (150%)
H1 is the same size as font size 6 (200%)
That generally means that an H1 tag is roughly twice the size of our standard size 3 fonts. Semantically, it's important that the H tags visually stand apart from the body text, but standing apart too much can be downright ugly. IMO, there is nothing spammy with changing the relative size of our header tags as long as we maintain a discernable difference.
H1 { font-size: 200%; font-weight: bold; }
If you include that declaration in your style sheets, your H1 tags are going to look exactly as they would without a declaration, at least in most modern browsers. That is simply the way most browsers have chosen to interpret an H1.
H1 { font-size: 150%; font-weight: bold; }
This declaration gives you something that maintains the difference between body text and the H1, while making the difference a little more visually appealing.
H1 { font-size: 100%; font-weight: normal; }
This is the one Yellowwing justifiably warned against, the one that can potentially get you labeled a spammer by the search engines. This declaration makes your H1 tags the same as surrounding body text, losing the visual distinction, and runs directly contrary to the intent of using header tags. This is a big no-no.
We shouldn't do things to our pages JUST because it might get the attention of a search engine spider, but in my opinion, we also shouldn't avoid doing things just because of a spider, either. It's okay to redefine the header tags to suit your artistic tastes as a designer as long as you remember why the header tags exist and use them accordingly. There are a LOT of things you can do in your CSS to make the H tags more attractive, while still maintaining their semantic distinction from the body text.
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beth_lk
Staff
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
# Posts: 1308
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Posted: 2004-Oct-19 03:41
Yellowwing and Ron - I hear you both loud and clear and thank you both so much ! Someone else told me to do this to get a better ( higher ) rating with the SE's but it looked terrible to me - again THANK YOU !
Beth
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10465
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Posted: 2004-Oct-23 21:44
<p><h3>Red motor bikes first became the best colour when...</h3></p>
This is incorrect usage. H tags are for headings! Headings are a SHORT piece of text that sit ABOVE, and introduce, a paragraph, list, table, or form. You cannot have a heading INSIDE a paragraph. Never.
>> >>How do I make a heading 1 for the SE's and yet not show it as a actual heading 1 in size? << <<
>> That's not a good idea. That can get you banned from the search engines! <<
I doubt it will get you banned, as there are valid reasons to tweak the size of a heading. What is most likely to harm you is using h tags on just your keywords without having a proper document structure.
What is a document structure?
Simply this: Your <body> should consist of headings (one liners above other content), paragraphs (the main content, paragraphed), lists (if you have a list of items), tables (if you have tabular data to present), and forms (if the user has to select and submit information).
In this message, right here, the words "What is a document structure?" above the previous paragraph are just such an example of a heading!!!!
Look at the source code of this page: http://www.astro.univie.ac.at/~scw/eu/Contact.html and then go and look at the validator output, especially scroll down to the bit marked "OUTLINE", and then compare it to the <h> tags used in the document!
That is one correct way to use headings!
There are also many incorrect ways.
[ Message was edited by: JimBot 11/17/2004 12:03 pm ... Reason: Typos ]
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manxp
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
# Posts: 8
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Posted: 2004-Nov-17 16:39
Ok, i don't want to start a new topic, so i'll ask here.
I have a website (soft-news.net) and if you will take a look at this, all the stories (10 stories per page) are in <h1> tags. Is it bad? Should i use <p> instead of current <h1>?
Another question: i have other website which contains just simple HTML pages (15 pages total). At the top of every page is <h1> tag with few most important keywords.
Then goes text in <h2> tag, but text is big in every page, about 2000 words in <h2> tag. Is it ok or not?
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10465
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Posted: 2004-Nov-17 20:12
H tags are for headings. A heading is a small piece of text that sits above, and introduces, a paragraph, list, table, or form.
Headings should not be longer than a few words.
Headings cannot go inside paragaphs.
Read the whole of this thread, again, carefully; and see if anything else is useful. Your questions are answered above.
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manxp
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
# Posts: 8
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Posted: 2004-Nov-17 21:02
Ok, but for example <h4> and normal text in <p> is in the same size. So which is better to use for top rankings? And if stories are not long (like in my example, there are no huge text), may be i still can use h?
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10465
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Posted: 2004-Nov-17 21:12
It might be the same size to your eye, but <h4> tags are for headings and <p> tags are for paragraphs; and search engines will want to analyse your page in that way.
It is not a question of which is good for top rankings, but simply that you put things that are headings inside heading tags, and long paragraphs of text are marked up as paragraphs.
Failure to do so, flags your site as potentially trying to spam the search engine results.
You can boost your results, by carefully writing the headings, not abusing them.
Read the post that is four above this one, and look carefully at that validator result, that is linked from that post.
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manxp
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
# Posts: 8
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Posted: 2004-Nov-17 21:24
Ok, i'll change it to <p>
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Ron C
Joined: Jul 23, 1999
# Posts: 1468
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Posted: 2004-Nov-18 00:02
Text within a heading should denote something important -- both for the visitor and for the search engine. You're essentially saying, hey, this is the most important thing on the page. That's WHY putting keywords into H tags is effective for SEO.
So, what do you think happens if you try to tell someone that everything on the page is of equal importance?
When everything is equal, nothing is important any more. Excessive use of H tags (or anything else) dilutes its value.
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