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alzo
Joined: Aug 06, 2004
# Posts: 56
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Posted: 09/19/2004 05:45 am
Hi everyone. I cannot decide if I need to do 301 ridirect or not. Currently I have a main domain lets say www.mydomain.com I also have one keyword rich domain which is just simply pakred and pointed at the main domain. I've heard that in this case, I do not have to worry about dubpicate copy penalties. Which seems like true with everywhere but Google. I think I am getting penalized somewhat there. I've some fantastic positions on Yahoo for some VERY competetive keywords with the keyword rich domain. SO, if I do a permanent 301 redirect on my keyword rich domain(instead of just park and point) will I loose my standings on Yahoo! I've heard few comments that Yahoo! does not work good with 301 redirects? Any comments. Thanks.
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 09/19/2004 01:04 pm
The problem Yahoo is currently having with 301s isn't fatal, it is just showing both domains, rather than excluding the domain that has been set up with a 301 redirect. In other words, it is the same effect has having both domains with a DNS record to the same IP, as you have now.
You say that the keyword rich domain name is doing well in the SERP, that usually indicates that the domains good performance is more often related to good inbound links, and less to do with the keywords within the domain itself.
So ... does the keyword rich domain have good inbound?
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6794
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Posted: 09/19/2004 01:29 pm
According to a Yahoo Rep, in a recent post in another forum, the 301 issue is now resolved.
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alzo
Joined: Aug 06, 2004
# Posts: 56
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Posted: 09/19/2004 01:45 pm
On Yahoo! it shows more links for my actual domain but, when I search one of the keywords it will always be the keyword rich domain coming up-- even though it has much less links. In fact some of the SERPs the keyword rich domain will rank #2 or #3 out ot 34 million pages(so this may show that Yahoo! still probably give lot of importance to the domain name). For Google, I cant exactly say I'm 100% sure about the penalty but, I'm not getting satisfactoried results. SO, as any SEO I'm trying to fix all the minor issues could cause me problem. As my understadning its always safe to do the 301 redirect, instead of regular park and point via the hosting people who uses 302.
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unreviewed
Joined: Dec 07, 2000
# Posts: 6776
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Posted: 09/19/2004 02:17 pm
OAC, that's is good news.
atro, an important off page ranking factor in addition to inbound links, is the anchor text used within the link. It's important to understand that as "the" factor of why keyword rich domains seem to give better results. It is not that the engines give much extra weight to words within a domain name, it is that more often than not, the keywords within the inbound anchor text will contain your keywords, and that does help a great deal.
That said, you could call a directory, Yahoo, and still do very well for the keyword Directory. 
Point is, encouraging web sites that link to you, to include the needed keywords in the link anchor text, is where real ranking comes from, and if you do that right, it matters little what the domain is called.
Currently, you have your potential ranking divided between two domains. However, the dilemma is, that you do have good listings, and if you add a 301 to your keyword rich domain, you will also need to get the web sites that link to that domain to change, and may suffer some short term pain. Personally I'd leave well enough alone, but in theory, you should do better long term with all ducks in a row.
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consultant2
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
# Posts: 37
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Posted: 09/19/2004 04:56 pm
So if they fixed the 301 problem, am I about to get screwed?
I've got www.mainsite.com which for some reason is penalized, doesn't show up anywhere, well, virtually anywhere (not in top 50 on any keywords, used to be top 3 on all.) It's a huge, prominent site on the Internet.
I've got a branded site, call it www.bigbrand.com which has been doing a 301 redirect to the appropriate sub-page on the main site. The main site sub page, as I said, is no where to be found in the directory, but the bigbrand site ranks #1 for its respective (and competetive I might add) keyword.
www.bigbrand.com doesn't show up on Google of course because they have enough brains on how to properly handle the 301, but now, on Yahoo, it looks like I'm going to get burned when the bigbrand site gets crawled again with the 301 problem fixed. It's going to go, hey, this site no longer exists at this address, it exists at this address of a domain we have penalized. Bye Bye www.bigbrand.com ranking??
[ Message was edited by: consultant2 09/19/2004 10:23 pm ]
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seo tester
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
# Posts: 42
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Posted: 09/19/2004 10:09 pm
I'm seeing both pages (the redirected and redirected to) for at least one site where I am using 301s in Yahoo's index. Both rank well in the Serps for the same keyword, but never in the same search. Yahoo seems to return the 2 URLs interchangably. A week ago i was only seeing the redirected to site. Strange...
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consultant2
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
# Posts: 37
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Posted: 09/19/2004 10:33 pm
What't I'm really interested in is for those out their using rewrite rules in their .htaccess file, are they seeing their page URL display on the search engine as the original URL or the URL Apache rewrites to. THAT'S the question here.
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melncali
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
# Posts: 38
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Posted: 09/22/2004 10:19 am
We used re-write, and then deployed 301's this week. Yesterday the site fell completely off Yahoo and today the rankings are amazing.
My questions would be:
Just so I'm clear wouldn't you deploy 301's after a site redesign or mod rewrite?
If so, and Yahoo isn't accepting this, what do you do if you are redesigning a site or completely changing your directory structure and naming?
Meta refreshes are considered spam for the most part. Can you deploy the 301's and do a no index follow for Yahoo? This way Google can follow.
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MakeMeTop
Joined: Jul 05, 2000
# Posts: 1714
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Posted: 09/23/2004 01:43 am
Due to the confusion about the 301 situation, probably Yahoo are the only people who can give us the definative answer on what should or should not be done.
A call for Yahoo_Mike, I think 
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Yahoo Mike
Joined: Mar 14, 2004
# Posts: 36
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Posted: 09/23/2004 10:13 am
Saw this and want to provide some info. on the 301 situation. If the content on a site is moved to a new domain use 301 redirects so that Yahoo!, users, and other search engines can find and index the new location. We would advise against robots.txt-ing out the old domain, or using the no-index, no-follow metatags -- these may prevent the older URL from showing up in the short term (while we improve our redirect handling). And in the longer term, these may prevent the connectivity your site had acquired from transferring properly. Going back to the top of the thread, not sure what the intention is. It's best not to have a “keyword optimized” domain that 301s to the “main site” if the intent is to create “doorway” spam.
Thanks,
Yahoo! Mike
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melncali
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
# Posts: 38
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Posted: 09/23/2004 01:23 pm
Ok, so it sounds that Yahoo is still working on the 301 redirect. In the mean time can someone direct me to info for retaining traffic after a redesign?
Thanks Yahoo Mike!
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MakeMeTop
Joined: Jul 05, 2000
# Posts: 1714
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Posted: 09/27/2004 12:42 am
Thanks for the clarification, Yahoo_Mike.
Your advice has been noted
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consultant2
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
# Posts: 37
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Posted: 09/29/2004 01:51 pm
If domain 1 is currently doing a 301 to domain 2 but still listing domain 1 in the URL in the SERP and Yahoo is ranking it really high because the keyword is in domain 1 but not domain 2. Would chaning it to a 302 redirect prevent Yahoo from eventually catching up and decreasing the rank because it now handles 301's correctly and effectively de-activates domain 1 in the SERP computation. This is assuming the algo disregards the domain name of domain 1 when there is a 301. So far it hasn't caught up, but then there is talk they really haven't 'fixed' much about the 301's anyway.
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7036
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Posted: 09/29/2004 02:01 pm
I would never change it to a 302. Stick with a 301 Permanent Redirect.
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buddhu
Joined: Mar 23, 2004
# Posts: 56
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Posted: 09/30/2004 08:38 am
This one is killing me.
I *so* want to 301 a domain (which is not our main 'brand' domain) that we have pointing to our site. I want to do this to avoid dupe problems with Google, but the domain I want to 301 gets top positions in Yahoo SERPs, and as it's a competitive commercial site I just can't afford to lose those rankings if Y! hasn't actually fixed the 301 weakness properly.
After reading through this thread I'm still not confident enough to risk it.
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