Eirik
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
# Posts: 94
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Posted: 04/12/2004 05:14 am
And is it really??
- I've read several threads of people talking about the importance of on-topic links. I don't know what to think... maybe it is important, and maybe it's not.
But who's to deside what's an on-topic link and what is not?
If I write an article about Norwegian farming from the 17th to 20th century, I might want to put up a link to a page describing the development of motorized ships. Is that an on-topic link? No! But it sure is relevant, because when motorized ships became usual in the 19th century several farmers went off to America leaving their soil.. And when they did that, it had major effect on those farmers that stayed behind, because they could take over the soil of those that left.
So.. if on-topic links are so important, the motorized ship site wont do good in the serps because a stupid computer don't know that this link actually IS an on-topic link! Or atleast very relevant and useful for much more than just random ship-interested people!
Example of an on-topic link:
- Motorized ship site links to motorized ship site... Why in the world should it do that??? It's about the same thing....
- Though, I have to argue with myself... If ten "boat-sites" links to your "boat-site", Google would might see your site as very important and a 'master' on the subject... Could understant that.. But what does he think about the ten sites that has to link to this 'master boat-site'? (They must be a bunch of crappy boat-sites maybe?)
Nice examples 
And one more question: (maybe the most interesting)
- Site A links to site B. Both is about "blue widgets". Does Google like it when site A links to site B saying "blue widgets" in the anchor text? Does Google have to see the keyword in the anchor text to be sure it's on'topic? Could it be that Google DON'T like that?
(puh! - got a little longer than originally planned)
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philh
Joined: Sep 14, 2001
# Posts: 3050
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Posted: 04/12/2004 05:31 am
Eirik - sorry, but there is no easy answer to that.
You need to ask yourself who you are building sites for, visitors or search engines.
Experience has shown if you build for Google, you will be chasing your own tail!
I personally, for instance, would be more successful if I spelt optimisation the american way with a z. But, even though it is costing me money, I wont bow to their crap algo with what is essentially a spelling mistake to my UK audience.
Good luck!
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ferret77
Joined: May 31, 2002
# Posts: 354
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Posted: 04/12/2004 06:30 am
i don't think it really matters to google where the inbond link is from but interms of promoting your site on topic inbounds are way better , and could keep your site a float if it disappears from google
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Eirik
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
# Posts: 94
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Posted: 04/12/2004 08:01 am
ferret: I agree with you... and I wish you're right!
- But as far as I know google reads the site that links to you and uses it in determination of your sites' ranking.. AND.. everyone are screaming about on-topic linking all the time!
philh: I build sites for both visitors and search engines; 50-50, but if the choice is wether to please the SE's or the visitors... hmmm.. Not very difficult: The search engines ofcourse! Happy visitors ain't worth nothing if you can't get them... (touchy! I guess)
But as I wrote: Site A links to Site B saying "blue widgets" in anchor. Both sites are about blue widgets.... Does Google think that is OKAY, or is it kind of "spammy" in their eyes. Is it better to use synonyms like "marine colored widgets" in anchor? Any ideas on that?
- And how important is it really to vary the link text?
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bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7035
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Posted: 04/12/2004 08:10 am
Eirik, I'm glad you brought this up. I'll answer this question twice:
Why is an on-topic link important?
From the search engine's point of view, they want links from on-topic sites because links from off-topic sites are not "natural". Off-topic links typically exist because they are put there (in many cases) to manipulate the search results. Search Engines don't like people who do things to manipulate their results.
Why is an on-topic link important?
Because the search engines, mainly Google, think that they're important. And you won't get good rankings without them. That's really why we should care about on-topic links.
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Eirik
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
# Posts: 94
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Posted: 04/12/2004 09:28 am
bhartzer, I'm glad you answered
- Usually I think your answers are good.
From a logically point of view, I think you're right. But to think logically when optimizing for Google has brought me nowhere lately!
But as far as my research has comed I've seen sites with few, and almost nothing but off-topic inbounds doing too good. Expired domains is a great example of that.. So basically I'm not sure what to think...
Bhartzer: Are you saying that a site with NO on-topic but thousands of off-topic inbounds won't stand a chance? Do you mean it that drastically?
And: is this something you KNOW? - if you say yes, I'm gonna trust you on that No matter how much I agree with ferret at this time
(Actually I'm concidering testing this and I'm gonna add about 40 more or less on-topic links to a PR4 site I'm working on... exciting!) BTW: Is it bad if those 40 links come from pages within the same site?
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ferret77
Joined: May 31, 2002
# Posts: 354
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Posted: 04/12/2004 09:49 am
erik,
If you look at any site that is optimized for really competitive phrases you usually will see a fair number of unrelated links
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bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7035
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Posted: 04/12/2004 10:10 am
Bhartzer: Are you saying that a site with NO on-topic but thousands of off-topic inbounds won't stand a chance? Do you mean it that drastically?
And: is this something you KNOW?
I've tested this lately, and off-topic links aren't helping with Google right now. One site just added over 1000 links. Although it helped the PR and backlinks, it didn't do anything for rankings.
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Logan
Moderator
Joined: Aug 14, 2002
# Posts: 3749
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Posted: 04/12/2004 10:15 am
my own experiences are contradictory to bhartzer's. while on topic is obviously preferrable ... i don't see a substantial difference.
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bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7035
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Posted: 04/12/2004 10:38 am
Yeah, but I'd rather have 100 on-topic links than 10,000 off-topic links.
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g1smd
Moderator
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10177
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Posted: 04/12/2004 11:18 am
>> Is it bad if those 40 links come from pages within the same site? <<
Google will know that those links were placed primarily to build PR.
All other things being equal, you would get a better effect on the results with just FOUR links, one from each of four other related sites of diverse geographical location, and diverse ownership.
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ferret77
Joined: May 31, 2002
# Posts: 354
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Posted: 04/12/2004 11:46 am
I think I would rather have 100 links from gambling and porno sites all in different datcenters then 10,000 ontopic links from the same site
so bhazar where did those 1000 irevelvent links come from
or are those part of the 10000 links you can get for 200.00 bucks that you where talking about in another thread
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excell
Moderator
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14502
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Posted: 04/12/2004 11:55 am
"Google will know that those links were placed primarily to build PR."
What is the answer to the question - are you after long term results across the majority of major search engines or are you trying to pander to the whimsies of one for a short term show.?
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bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7035
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Posted: 04/12/2004 12:41 pm
part of the 10000 links you can get
Actually, I've been watching the guy who sells those links and all Google must have caught up with him--all the PR of those sites have disappeared.
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Eirik
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
# Posts: 94
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Posted: 04/12/2004 04:50 pm
What is the answer to the question - are you after long term results across the majority of major search engines or are you trying to pander to the whimsies of one for a short term show.?
If that's for me I'm after long term results all over the line... But Google don't like me at the moment so I wonder if it is because of this issue... Focusing on adding on-topic links probably wont hurt my ranking on the other engines...
Google will know that those links were placed primarily to build PR.
That's what I thought too, but I guess the PR will be passed on anyway. But not giving any particular effect on the ranking. High PR has brought me nowhere
Regarding on-topic links or not, I don't know what to think anymore...
ferret: Are you saying that most of your links are off-topic and you're doing good anyway?
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ferret77
Joined: May 31, 2002
# Posts: 354
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Posted: 04/12/2004 06:22 pm
i plead the 5th,
listen to excell and bharazar
[ Message was edited by: ferret77 04/14/2004 06:53 am ]
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EyesCoffee
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
# Posts: 204
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Posted: 04/13/2004 07:55 pm
Ok, just an opposite spin on the subject.
You say having 1000+ links from off-topic sites helps PR but does nothing to help rankings.
But what if you had a link from a site with high PR but with so many links on it that the PR won't be passed on? Would that help your rankings since it's a link from an on topic site, or would the it make no difference since there is no change (or very little change) in PR?
[ Message was edited by: EyesCoffee 04/14/2004 06:58 am ]
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ferret77
Joined: May 31, 2002
# Posts: 354
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Posted: 04/14/2004 06:47 am
You say having 1000+ links from off-topic sites helps PR but does nothing to help rankings.
umm but it will
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Eirik
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
# Posts: 94
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Posted: 04/14/2004 07:28 am
Me too ofcourse believe that it helps. But it probably doesn't help as much as a bunch of quality on-topic links...
a link is still a link. And PR is still PR
I believe google has added something to its algo that it likes to see to rank sites well... On-topic links could indeed be such a thing!
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excell
Moderator
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14502
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Posted: 04/14/2004 07:39 am
on-topic links are naturally the better way to go - IMO 
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